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HD Sig P226 vs. Mossberg 500

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Red Tornado, Aug 28, 2004.

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  1. Red Tornado

    Red Tornado Member

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    Let me preface this by saying that where I live, it's extremely unlikely that I will ever need to use any firearm for home defense, so this is mostly theoretical exercise. But, since they told us in personal defense class, to visualize any possible situation for self defense in the home....

    My HD gun is a Sig P226 9mm, which stays in my bedside stand, in half loaded condition. It's the only handgun I really shoot (100 rds a month or so), and I'm very comfortable with it. It holds 15 rounds which can be put in an 8 1/2 x 11 area from across the room, very quickly.

    However, in many situations I can envision, I see myself having the Mossberg 500 12GA pump which hold 3 rounds (No, I don't want to take the plug out.) I've done dove/rabbit/quail hunting and I'm very comfortable with a shotgun.

    If I'm dressed and prepared, I'll have the 12Ga, with the 9mm in my belt. But that's not realistic. (Actually being truly prepared involves having several friends with a variety of weaponry. ;) More realistic is I'm in my underwear in the dark, and have time to grab one......finally my question...which one?!?

    The shotgun is good for 3 intruders, maximum, assuming I don't miss. However, the 9mm may take multiple shots per intruder, even assuming that I also don't miss.

    I won't be getting any additional guns for some time so please let's not go 9mm v.45. :rolleyes:

    Thanks for any thoughts.
    RT

    P.S. If I see 'em coming the Garand will make it all irrelevant.:evil:
     
  2. Majic

    Majic Member

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    While someone may absorb several hits of the 9mm, one hit with 12 gauge 00 buck will take the fight out of them. Aiming is not as critical with the shotgun as with the pistol to achieve hits. When both weapons run dry the shotgun is a formidable blunt weapon using the buttstock.

    If the Mossy serves double duty why not remove the plug and use the full magazine capacity? It's a quick and easy process to remove/install the plug.

    One question though, what do you mean your Sig is "in half loaded condition"? :confused:
     
  3. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    If I knew I was going to have a single adversary in the room with me, I'd ALWAYS rather have a shotgun than any handgun. A single shot from 000 buckshot is about the same as 9 rounds of 9mm so three rounds of 000 is about comparable to 27 rounds of 9mm. Of course, I'd much rather have 8 rounds of 000.

    Plus, if/when you run out of ammo, I'd rahter have a solid shotgun to hit someone with than a handgun.
     
  4. Dbl0Kevin

    Dbl0Kevin Member

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    It really bugs me when people say this. You MUST aim properly with a shot gun in order to hit your target the same as with a pistol. ESPECIALLY at close ranges such as inside a home there will be little to no spread in the pattern of shot. There has been a misconception for years that with a shotgun all you have to do is point it in the direction of the attacker and you're gauranteed to hit which is dead wrong. Granted it is easier to make accurate shots with a long gun as opposed to a pistol...but that is not limited to a shotgun and with the close ranges inside a house it's not as much of an advantage unless you live in a mansion.

    As for the question I would personally go with the Sig over the shotgun as I'm not a fan of shotguns for anything other than shooting trap really. If I have to fire in self defense I want ONE bullet coming out and I want to know I can put that bullet exactly where I want to. This works for me because I'm practiced with my guns and know I can shoot accurately. This is especially important to me in a SD scenario. This is because even though you try to make sure of your backstop and what is around you, there are so many things going on at once that I don't want to have to worry about a stray round of buckshot that hits a family member. Also I'd much rather have 15 shots than 3....or even 8 for that matter. IMHO the more ammo the better cause it can go quickly in a life or death situation.
     
  5. Gameface

    Gameface Member

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    I have to say that if someone intrudes into your home they will almost never be expecting a gun battle. There is very little incentive to a criminal to engage in a tit for tat exchange of gunfire. I always wonder who people envision coming into their homes and sticking around through repeated hits. I know my opinion might not be very well appreciated on this one, but If three scumbags break into your home and even hear you pump the Mossberg they will quickly realize they are in the wrong house. If they don’t leave right away and you end up plugging scumbag #1 the other two will only fight you if you are blocking the way out.

    Just about the only people who will stick around when you start shooting back are the authorities.

    Gameface
     
  6. Dbl0Kevin

    Dbl0Kevin Member

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    Gameface,

    That is a very true assessment, but do you REALLY want to bet your life on it? After all, the chances that someone with evil intent will break into your house are slim as it is....why have a gun at all if you're just playing the odds?
     
  7. Red Tornado

    Red Tornado Member

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    Majic,
    Half-loaded is the term I learned for a full magazine, but no round chambered. I just have to rack the slide.

    I agree that hearing a shotgun pumped is probably one of the most heart stopping sounds imaginable in a dark house. :eek: Especially if you're an intruder. But, since the MO bootheel is pretty much the methamphetimine capital, I would almost have to assume anyone uninvited would be on something.

    Anyone who's stupid enough to put that crap in their body can't be relied on to have sense enough to run when they should.:(
     
  8. Telperion

    Telperion Member

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    Any reason why you don't keep a round chambered in your pistol? SIGs are very safe handguns; it isn't going to fire unless the trigger is pulled.
     
  9. sendec

    sendec member

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    Both?

    The handgun for if you have to move, say for an example to get a kid from their room into a safe room. The shotgun for covering the door of your safe room while hunkered down and waiting for the police.

    To reinforce, fighting shotguns have to be aimed with a level of precision equal to that of a handgun. New shooters of the defensive shotgun are typically stunned when their close range shots from the hip invariable miss.
     
  10. Doug S

    Doug S Member

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    A handgun in a quick access safe is quicker, but if you had the opportunity to get to the Mossberg, it would be the better weapon. I have a Persuader 8shot. I wouldn't limit myself to 3 rounds though as I'd use the Mossber for HD & pick up another shotgun for hunting. In fact if I had to choose between 10 rounds from my Glock or 3 in my Mossberg I might just opt for the higher round count. It seems that criminals are getting more serious these days & often bring a friend;) .
     
  11. prezzz

    prezzz Member

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    Red Tornado,

    The purpose of having a DA/SA weapon like the Sig 226 is so you can keep a round in the chamber with a DA first shot. Why do you keep the chamber empty? [​IMG] Your talking home defense buddy! You may not have time, or a hand to rack a slide. Ever woke up from a sleep and your hand was numb from laying on it? That may cost you your life if you have an empty chamber my friend.
     
  12. Gameface

    Gameface Member

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    I don't play the odds. I do live my life without fear. There are guns in my house that are ready for action. I wouldn't be the one asking if I should use the Mossberg or the Sig. I would take each situation as it comes. I don't guarantee that I’ll always come out on top. I don’t have a plan for every possibility. The second things actually start to happen there are no hard and fast plans. The more simple you’re “plan†is the more situations it will help you in.

    If I hear a bump in the night I don’t even grab a gun right away. I sit still and try to figure out what is going on. If I hear human noise (if that doesn’t make sense then too bad) and it is in an inappropriate place then I’m up, aware and carrying a ready gun in a holster (.357 snub in shoulder rig). If someone needs to be scared off I feel confident that I can do that. If someone needs more encouragement than that then I can give them as many reasons to leave as it takes or make them pay for staying. If my assessment of what’s going on calls for more than that then I’ve got a few more tools at my disposal and I’ll use ‘em all. Why limit yourself?

    Gameface

    P.S. Having the shotgun is somewhat limiting if the situation doesn't actually call for firepower. A handgun is more descrete and can be used more easily in tight spaces. On the other hand, if you know that something bad is going down, the shotgun (with its full capacity of ammo) will be a little more effective overall...IMHO
     
  13. Dbl0Kevin

    Dbl0Kevin Member

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    My point exactly, so glad you agree.

    My motto is plan for the worst but hope for the best.
     
  14. Mark13

    Mark13 Member

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    You are asking what you should use to stop someone who is trying to kill you right? Someone who is coming at you with either a knife or a gun, or some other deadly weapon in your house and hasn't turned and run away even after seeing you armed?

    I'd go with a 12 gauge loaded with buckshot everytime. A pistol in any caliber is a pathetic manstopper compared to a 12 gauge. And I would go with the 12 gauge even over my nifty, tricked out Bushmaster.
     
  15. prezzz

    prezzz Member

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    12 gauge with 00 Buckshot = (9) .32 caliber projectiles per shot.

    9mm = (1) .35 caliber projectile per shot.


    The answer is too obvious.
     
  16. Red Tornado

    Red Tornado Member

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    Great points, everyone, thanks. Doug, the higher round count is kind of my dilemma. If I could get a 10 shot extension for the 12ga, that would end any discussion.:D

    As far as not having one chambered...I can get the pistol and chamber a round quicker than I can turn around with it, so it wouldn't really slow down my overall reaction time any. At least in practice, and hopefully I'll never have to find out for real. It just seems to be an additional level of safety, as well as making my wife more comfortable when I tell her it's not "loaded".
     
  17. Dbl0Kevin

    Dbl0Kevin Member

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    And just remember that for every projectile you fire you are responsible for where it goes. That's why I choose to fire one at a time.
     
  18. Lt. G

    Lt. G Member

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    Long gun first,(or shot gun), then the pistol. The NCOs always taught us that our rifle/shotgun/long weapon was used to kill the enemy. our sidearm, (a 45 in my day) was used if your weapon jammed ,out of ammo, etc.... Still live by that motto today.
     
  19. prezzz

    prezzz Member

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    Roger that. And I also understand the wife aspects of the "no loaded" thing.

    Food for thought:

    In the Police Academy, we were taught that you never put yourself in a postition to where you need 2 hands to make the pistol ready to fire. Also, in that condition, you have one less round available in the pistol.
    Just something to ponder. :)
     
  20. Mark13

    Mark13 Member

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    I don't think a 10 round tube is necessary for a shotgun. I have a 7 round tube 18" barrel, and keep 5 loaded all the time. At room ranges the spread will be minimal, so I don't worry about stray pellets, if it's clear behind the bad guy. Besides a stray pellet will penetrate far less than a stray pistol round.

    Also keep in mind that if you do have to defend yourself in your house you will probably suffer some type of temporary hearing loss. I believe lots of police officers have ended up with permanent, minor to complete hearing loss from shooting in a small closed space.
     
  21. lbmii

    lbmii Member

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    To back up what Dbl0Kevin wrote see the below photo of the pattern 9 Pellet Remington Double Ought Buckshot made at about 6 yards when fired from my Mossberg 590 A1 DA with a 20 inch modified choke. Note that the spread is about 4 inches.

    [​IMG]

    The next photo below is Federal Premium Double Ought 9 pellets at 6 paces (about 7 yards) 20" barrel modified choke. Note the spread is only about 2 inches.


    [​IMG]

    See all other patterns here:

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83909
     
  22. The Last Confederate

    The Last Confederate member

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    A shotgun always beats a handgun.
     
  23. Majic

    Majic Member

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    Now take that modified choke out and install the cylinder choke and reshoot.
    Any way you look at it which one requires the more critical aim?
     
  24. Dbl0Kevin

    Dbl0Kevin Member

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    Ummm both do. That is if you want to hit something. If you just want to have shots go anywhere then neither. :uhoh:
     
  25. Majic

    Majic Member

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    Ok, where in this:
    was anything said about not aiming a shotgun that bugs you?
     
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