Head to Head: Low recoil hunting rifle

[Bigfoot]

The "impulse wave" from the rifle is a much higher frequency and much faster pressure curve than the slugs. Makes FELT recoil sting you more. Basically imagine it like this, I PUSH your shoulder with 25 pounds of force verses I snap a punch with equal power into your shoulder. Which do you think you will PERCEIVE hit harder? I am pretty sure there is a calculation in those things for the impulse wave but my Physics is rusty to say the least.

My recoil calculator has two figures, Recoil Velocity and Recoil Energy. A 30-06 loaded with a 180 Partition has more total Recoil Energy than one loaded with a 150 TTSX but the faster load has comparatively more Recoil Velocity so the felt recoil has more snap to it.

That 7 3/4 lb rifle loaded with the 130 TTSX to just over 3000 fps recoils under 14 lb. The 125 Ballistic Tip at 2800 is even less.

Don't have the lightweight 260 yet so I make do by loading the 30s down. It works fine so I don't really need the 260. Just gotta have one.

 

[Kachok]

I would just like to point something out about this little sissy kicker club, if you notice the top compedators all carry 300+lbs Optimal Game Weight out to 300 yards. despite the fact these are low recoil rounds they are deadly and suitable for any whitetail deer to ever walk this earth, so if you deer hunt with your sissy kicker (like me) don't let the 300 mag guys smack talk you. Know you game, your gun, and your bullet, and everything else will fall into place.

 

[Water-Man]

The best situation IMO is knowing your sissy kickers AND your ass kickers.

 

[Kachok]

Sissy kicker and A$$ kickers I like that. I want to get a 300 Win mag so I have both. My 270 WSM is great for long range deer hunting but it would be nice to have a long range elk cannon. The 300 Win has taken 1st place in the "Practical Big Game Rifle" comparison. It's energy mass/energy/momentum at 300 yards combined with it's flat trajectory gave it a leg up on the .308win.
The 280 Rem and it's AI veriant did EXELLENT in the comparison as well, especialy since they have such low recoil.

 

[Bigfoot]

Some calibers can do both and the 270 WSM is one of them. With the right powder it can do 6.8 SPC velocity with the same bullets and only recoil a lb or two more. Load 130s to just under 270 Win velocity and it will recoil under 14 lb easily.

I finally got my 6 3/4 lb scoped and slung 300 WSM going. Since buying it I'd been worried about the recoil and at times I wished that I'd gone 270 WSM instead. I got some Blue Dot and 5744 powder to load it down to 30-30 through -06 velocities and recoil. I even bought a Vais muzzle brake for it. Then last week I got the scope mounted (took me forever to get the oddball Talley mounts) so I sighted in in with factory ammo on the Lead-Sled and then shot off the remainder of the box freehand. Eight 150s at 3300 fps, the recoil calculator said 28 lb. No problem, no soreness, no hint of a bruise. The Decelerator pad helped I'm sure. I might not even mount that Vais brake now and I probably won't use the Blue Dot, 308 velocity on the small end will be fine and the 5744 powder will get me there easily.

5744 full pressure load data: http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin...st-71-26082-2001_comp_guide_combined_file.pdf go 1/3 down. It doesn't have the 270 WSM but the 7mm Rem Mag is pretty close.

Point #1 is that large capacity cartridges can mimic the recoil and performance of smaller ones if carefully loaded down with the right powder and bullets. Sometimes equaling that performance with less powder than the smaller cartridge would use.

#2 Even when loaded full bore for big game we have real good recoil pads and brakes to tame that recoil.


I still need that 260 though. With it I can match the trajectory of the WSM for practice. That's my story and nobody else here reads this forum.

 

[Kachok]

Nothing wrong with using reduced loads as long as you maintain 1800-2000 fps at your point of impact. The 30 cals are not the best in the under 14lbs class, but they are totaly capable of cleanly taking deer sized game, please check out the 308 load that I added. I had to slow it down to 2600fps to keep the recoil down. 6.5mms are vastly superior in this class, flatter shooting, extended range, and harder hitting.

 

[Bigfoot]

Agreed about the 30s although my Barnes book says that a 308 with 45 gr RL 10 and the 130 TTSX gives 3143. That's under 14# and I'm thinking that my WSM can do the same with similar amounts of 5744. We'll see pretty soon anyway.

I went 300 WSM instead of the 270 WSM because of the big Roosy elk around here.

Did you see the 7mm RM on that 5744 link? It shares the same capacity as your 270 WSM at 82 grains. 47 gr 5744 gives 3127 with 120 gr bullets. That's under 14 lb. I only know of two 120 gr 270 bullets but they're brand new so you can substitute the 110 TTSX or Accubond. That's a low recoil 270 that will reach out there and still can be loaded with 150 Partitions when the time comes.

I not saying that a fella needs to have one rifle to do it all(not me) but he could if he absolutely had to.

 

[Kachok]

What recoil calculator are you using? That 308 load I have at 17lbs adjusted for impulse and even if you don't buy into the recoil impulse that is still 15.2lbs with an 8lbs rifle. Not a hard kicker but certainly over 14lbs no matter how you look at it. Your WSM might need a smig more powder to duplacate the 308 load because of the larger case.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Math is great, numbers are wonderful but a LOT of people swear and I mean SWEAR that the .30-30 is a hard kicking cartridge. This is porbably due to the ergonomics of the lever gun.

The recoil 'dynamics' for lack of a better word of a bolt gun vs. a lever action rifle (even of the same weight) just don't feel equal for a LOT of people.

Something to consider when shopping for the recoil sensitive.

 

[Kachok]

The problem the 30-30 has is that so many of the good lever guns are light and have no real recoil pad so they feel harder then they actualy kick. A 6.5x55 or 243 in an 8lbs setup with a pad has the kick of a BB gun.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I'm in complete agreement there, just saying math in this case does not tell the whole story.

I'd use your chart as a starting point for shopping for a rifle, and try to get my prospective hunter/shooter to try a variety of calibers/rifles from among those.

 

[Bigfoot]

Yep, that's partly why I told the story of the dreaded beast that turned out to be shootable after all. For me anyway. I was high fiving myself all the way home that day.

I use the recoil calculator on my Load From a Disk software. It really showed me how lighter bullets and faster powders help.

 

[Kachok]

Yeah there are several aspects of recoil that you cannot just throw into a calculator, but there are genral guidelines that will give you a firm grasp on it. I am still amazed that the 7mm-08s 6.5X55s could hold such high downrange killing power, 368lbs, and 370lbs respectivly at 300 yards according to the OGW formula (a conservitive formula) that is more then any whitetail you are ever going to run across!

 

[Finprof]

Us High-Power silhouette shooters have to knock down a silhouette made of 1/2 inch steel the size of a ram at 500 yards, shooting offhand.
The most popular calibers are 260 Remington, 7-08, 6.5x55, and, lately, 6.5x47 Lapua.
Every now and then these calibers will lose a ram, and the 7-08 will lose fewer than the others. A .243 just won't work on rams.
A match is 40 record shots, plus and other 10 or 15 sighters, so recoil is a big factor shooting that much in a morning. Each 5-shot string is taken in 2 1/2 minutes.

With regard to the 30/30, we also shoot lever action and iron sights at reduced ranges - 200 yards for the ram. I don't get beat up as bad with 40 shots for my 30/30 than 40 shots with my 6.5x55.

Added edit:

My 30/30 is the Marlin 336 CB with a 24 inch octagonal barrel. It weighs at least 8 1/2 pounds and is very muzzle-heavy. The 336 is significantly heavier than a Winchester 94 to begin with. Also, the 30/30 uses 150 grain cast bullets at about 1400 fps. It doesn't take as much to push over the rams at 200 yards.

 

[Water-Man]

Only somebody from NJ would say a .30-30 recoils less than a 6.5X55 SE. Maybe someone from MA & CT as well.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

One thing that the calculators can't factor in to recoil is BALANCE of a rifle. A well balanced rifle will have a LOT less felt recoil. Add to that a good recoil pad, weight, powder speed, weight of projectile, length of barrel (yep makes a HUGE difference), muzzle brake, type of action, man thats making my head hurt!

 

[Bigfoot]

The most popular calibers are 260 Remington, 7-08, 6.5x55, and, lately, 6.5x47 Lapua.

I understand that the 120 Ballistic Tip is used often by those 7mm-08 shooters? Good bullet for game too. A relatively high BC and the low weight helps keep recoil down.

 

[Kachok]

a 120gr BT has a BC of .417, while this will shoot flat it is not ideal for larger deer at longer range like the 140gr is. You can push 3200+ fps out of a 7mm-08 with those light bullets, but you will be well over the recoil limit. That said 3260fps with a 120 shoots flatter then a max load 130gr 270win and kicks less OGW @300 is 371lbs and 16.9 lbs of recoil.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

7mm-08 all the way, If I were looking for a deer rifle, that's what I'd buy. I'd take a 7-08 over a 270 Win without blinking. The B.C of .284 match bullets is phenomenal.

 

[Kachok]

Check out Burgers VLD hunting bullets. The 180gr is a record setting .659BC!!!! There simple is no hunting bullet out there that touches that, trust me I have looked. Sadly you need a 1:9 twist to stabalize it and the 7mm Mauser is the only one I know of with that kind of factory twist.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Check out Burgers VLD hunting bullets. The 180gr is a record setting .659BC!!!! There simple is no hunting bullet out there that touches that, trust me I have looked. Sadly you need a 1:9 twist to stabalize it and the 7mm Mauser is the only one I know of with that kind of factory twist

Good thing I RARELY use factory barrels

 

[Maverick223]

I think I have just about determined that the T/C Icon in 6.5mmCreedmoor will be my next whitetail rifle. I still don't like the billboard on the side of the receiver, but I think I can make do...there are just too many good features in that rifle to ignore.

 

[Kachok]

I want a Heavy 29" barrel 280AI to replace my 270 WSM as my long ranged gun. While the WSM is GREAT for flat trajectory on deer, it simply cannot carry the kind of downrange impact/KE that a 280 AI can for larger game. I might do a buildup on a savage action once I get back to work.

 

[Maverick223]

I'm with ya' Kachok, a .280Rem. in any form is a great chambering, extremely versatile and one of my overall favorites. I sold my .270WSM (don't regret it one bit either) and bought a .300WM for target use and a .30-06Spd for game. I think the '06 will become a .35Whelen after I purchase a new .280Rem. in a Remington 7600 pump rifle...at least that's the plan this week (I don't really need to, because there is nothing that walks the earth that can walk away from a well placed shot from my '06 or if need be the .375H&H, but I like to have a rifle tuned in just right for the game I am seeking).

 

[Kachok]

My Grandfather owned over 300 firearms at the time of his death. Of all of them his 700 CDL in 280 was his all time favorite. The AI adds aprox 100 fps in most bullet weights, darn near matching the 7mm Rem Mag burning about 10gr less powder.