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Heavies in 38 special and 357mag

I love 35 cal and couldn't find a 353 casual

Not sure what to tell you - are you trying to pretend that something can't exist just because you've never heard of it?. Now you've heard of it, you can find it. Freedom produces 83's, I know some folks have ran original 6 shot Redhawks at that pressure standard also - I've ran my 357mag Redhawks very near to 353 Casull pressures, over a predicted 50kpsi, but haven't pushed as hard as the Casull level load data.


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Not sure what to tell you - are you trying to pretend that something can't exist just because you've never heard of it?. Now you've heard of it, you can find it. Freedom produces 83's, I know some folks have ran original 6 shot Redhawks at that pressure standard also - I've ran my 357mag Redhawks very near to 353 Casull pressures, over a predicted 50kpsi, but haven't pushed as hard as the Casull level load data.


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Is 353 the model or the cartridge/chambering? Be honest.
 
Goigle AND Mr. Taffin agree it is the model #…

Beefed up to handle over pressure 357MAG type loads…

Damn….. I wish I was in the cool guy club…. :cool: :evil:
I know. I remember that article. I think I might have it saved somewhere. Unless it was in one of the boxes of magazines that got ruined by the roof leak.😩

The .357Max gets a bad rap. That combined with the belief that every problem with midbore pistols has to do with a lack of pressure and muzzle blast. Sometimes slower is better.
 
You guys had me hyped up on shooting some of the 190gr Ranch Dog bullets yesterday....... I went through all my old peanut butter jars and sour cream tubs and they are all gone. I think I gave the jar of them to a buddy for his brother's .35 Rem. I ended up loading some 358-429s in the .35 Rem.......They didn't do that great.
 
For a rifle ... I would look Long and Hard at the NOE 358-180-WFN .

Back Home, Years Ago I loaded some manner of 180grn bullets for my 4" 686, probably under Unique, but maybe 2400 or W296 by then. I certainly took my bag limit on paper targets with them, but in reality, they probably didn't do anything a 158grn bullet wouldn't... out of a 4" barrel, and at handgun ranges. Now, if I would have had a rifle... that changes things a bit.
 
Back Home, Years Ago I loaded some manner of 180grn bullets for my 4" 686, probably under Unique, but maybe 2400 or W296 by then. I certainly took my bag limit on paper targets with them, but in reality, they probably didn't do anything a 158grn bullet wouldn't... out of a 4" barrel, and at handgun ranges. Now, if I would have had a rifle... that changes things a bit.
My .357’s are mostly 6-1/2”-10” but I do have a couple of 4”-5-1/2” revolvers in that cartridge and they eat from the same trough. I’m not a fan of Papier Fricassee so our use cases are a little different.

Unique is one of the best heavy lead .38Spl powders made. IMO. And 2400 does the same for 170gr + bullets in the .357Mag.

Is either THE powder for 2000fps snub nose loads? No. Are they the best powders for 60Kpsi revolver loads? Nope. But either one does everything a sane, normal, reasonable person would want to do with a mid-range, holster-carry handgun. IMO. YMMV.
 
Back Home, Years Ago I loaded some manner of 180grn bullets for my 4" 686, probably under Unique, but maybe 2400 or W296 by then. I certainly took my bag limit on paper targets with them, but in reality, they probably didn't do anything a 158grn bullet wouldn't... out of a 4" barrel, and at handgun ranges. Now, if I would have had a rifle... that changes things a bit.
Mais Yeah ! A Rifle is a whole different ball game entirely . The 180 gr.WFN from a 357 Magnum rifle ...
or better yet one of them new 360 Buckhammer cartridges ... single shot or lever ...
Look Out Momma ...
that would be just the ticket for sure !
Gary
 
J-Bar, do you have a .357 rifle? If so, you'd be a might surprised.

Not anymore; sold all my cowboy competition guns. Just revolvers now. I'm sure you are correct about performance in a rifle. Still, it might be fun to experiment with the handguns!

It's something to do!!
 
I wondered about the 200 grain bullets in the 357 Magnum. With standard pressure loads, a four inch or six inch barrel, what sort of velocities do you get?
 
Not anymore; sold all my cowboy competition guns. Just revolvers now. I'm sure you are correct about performance in a rifle. Still, it might be fun to experiment with the handguns!

It's something to do!!
Oh, they're fine in a handgun; not too stout, but, hard hitting. Give it some thought, think you'd like it. Like you said, "It's something to do!!":thumbup:
 
I wondered about the 200 grain bullets in the 357 Magnum. With standard pressure loads, a four inch or six inch barrel, what sort of velocities do you get?
My .357 loads are around 800fps in the Colts Lawman (4”) and a little faster in the Pietta/Great Western II (5-1/2”) but not much; within the standard deviation on an average. That’s a stout load for close range plugging.

My 41-Frame Colts 38’s are getting 700fps from a 4” barrel. That’s pushing the old HD standard but Colts certified the 41-Frame for HD loads as a steady diet. Ditto for the Smith 44-Frame revolvers.
 
This is all great information guys, I appreciate it. I basically want a lot of hit at close range with the 38s and the real energy will be focused at 357 that'll work in both rifle and the Blackhawk. But I run around in the backcountry with some pretty big animals and sometimes just a 38, so I want a Lil more stopping power if it's available. Maybe a 160grn wadcutter would be best for 38 and pursue the bigger bullets in 357 and bigger cases... I have a 148wc and a Lee 158swc mould. Just haven't loaded any 158 home cast up yet...
 
This is all great information guys, I appreciate it. I basically want a lot of hit at close range with the 38s and the real energy will be focused at 357 that'll work in both rifle and the Blackhawk. But I run around in the backcountry with some pretty big animals and sometimes just a 38, so I want a Lil more stopping power if it's available. Maybe a 160grn wadcutter would be best for 38 and pursue the bigger bullets in 357 and bigger cases... I have a 148wc and a Lee 158swc mould. Just haven't loaded any 158 home cast up yet...
Anything bigger than a boar hog and the .357 with stout 170’s or heavier. Our little Black Bear down South are pretty tame and not much bigger than a Mastiff. Up where you are I’d think the Brown Bear y'all have would probably need something in the stout 300gr plus.44Mag or .45Colt variety. But I’m not from the PNW and am not sure you’re referencing bears so I could be wrong.

I try to let bears pass by peacefully and so far I have been very lucky. Ditto for panthers.
 
Unique is one of the best heavy lead .38Spl powders made. IMO. And 2400 does the same for 170gr + bullets in the .357Mag.

Couldn't agree more.

This is all great information guys, I appreciate it. I basically want a lot of hit at close range with the 38s and the real energy will be focused at 357 that'll work in both rifle and the Blackhawk. But I run around in the backcountry with some pretty big animals and sometimes just a 38, so I want a Lil more stopping power if it's available. Maybe a 160grn wadcutter would be best for 38 and pursue the bigger bullets in 357 and bigger cases... I have a 148wc and a Lee 158swc mould. Just haven't loaded any 158 home cast up yet...

I would think a 158grn bullet with a wide meplat, moving along briskly, would be better out of the .38SPC. I'm not Super Hunter or anything, so I may be all wet on that. I would not use a full wadcutter, at least a cast one, unless it's cast fairly hard, or plated, etc.


I see the difference between bullet weights in my .41MAG... between a 4" or 6" pistol, and my 20" Marlin. Lighter (215grn) bullets show the biggest difference in velocity, even with mid-range powders like Unique.... 300fps from Unique, 500fps from W296. When you move to heavier bullets, the velocity change isn't as dramatic, although it is still significant, but increasing the bullet weight by 15% or more certainly translates to more energy downrange. The 250grn Cast Performance FP is moving along quite briskly (for a heavy .41MAG bullet,) at 1550fps, out of the Marlin, although 1100fps from the 4" S&W is no slouch, either.
 
The LBT designs maybe turn the .357 into a bigger gun.

...only thing I have found that turns a .357 into a "bigger gun", is using a carbine. In a time where everyone is looking for a "Magic Bullet", sadly they are only made out of unobtainium.
I have tried the heavies in 357 but settled on 158 grain LSWC they do everything I need them to do and they are dam accurate

158 and 160 grains
Elmer keith did a lot of experimenting with heavy 38 special loads ... this was pre 357 Magnum day's ...
He designed many moulds but discovered anything over 170 grains would not be stabilized by the twist rate of S&W barrels .

I have similar experiences. From a .357 handgun, when using it on medium game, my goal is penetration and IME, 158's pushed hard, do a better job of penetration than 180s or 200s, regardless of bullet type. The difference in trajectory is huge also. The .357 from a handgun has a rainbow trajectory even with 158s. But, folks should use what they have confidence with.
 
When I was shooting bowling pin matches I loaded a 200gr RN in my 4" 357 Mag and it would clear the table as well as my 45 auto but was harder to get back on target.
 
When I was shooting bowling pin matches I loaded a 200gr RN in my 4" 357 Mag and it would clear the table as well as my 45 auto but was harder to get back on target.
I had better results shooting Silhouettes with the Sierra 170gr FMJ than anything else.

For bowling pins I used the old 200gr WFRN Remington bullet they sold commercially as Super Police Special. I think the factory velocity in .38Spl was around 600fps but I preferred them bumped up to 700fps. They’d shove the pins straight off the back of the table and recoil was low enough.
 
Anything bigger than a boar hog and the .357 with stout 170’s or heavier. Our little Black Bear down South are pretty tame and not much bigger than a Mastiff. Up where you are I’d think the Brown Bear y'all have would probably need something in the stout 300gr plus.44Mag or .45Colt variety. But I’m not from the PNW and am not sure you’re referencing bears so I could be wrong.

I try to let bears pass by peacefully and so far I have been very lucky. Ditto for panthers.
I do play in brown bear country sometimes, but when doing that I'm carrying a 44 with 300+ gran ammo in it. Around my neck of the woods we do have some large black bears which sometimes act inquisitive instead of flighty, so them and mountain lions. We also have lots of big dogs with untrainable owners, so having enough gun is a good idea. And free range cattle too. I seem to find them everywhere. Again, mostly not an issue, but not small if they decide to trample you or your camp. Plus the garden variety tweaker seems native to the pnw.
 
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