Help-AR15 Options/Features

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pdowg881

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I know this probably gets asked a lot but Ive looked over RRA Stag Bushmaster and a few other AR15 makers and I can't find any pricing on what I'm looking for. I am in the first stages of looking at a possible purchase in the future and have been narrowing down what I'm looking for.

I am looking for an AR15 for range use. I want it for practicing shooting from kneeling standing/prone. I also want to get good with iron sights on it. I won't be shooting past 100 yards for now, but I plan to in the future. I have not had any experience with Ar15 rifles before, just the M16. I only plan on buying one rifle and no more uppers or different barrel legths for quite awhile so I want to get it right. The M16 I have had practice with was privately owned, and had an ajustable stock. I didn't like it even fully extented and found it uncomfortable and not soli feeling. So here are the requirements:

I am 6'4". I think I would prefer the length and looks of An A2 stock and I am more of a fan of the looks of a full length rifle too.

I am also looking for a 20" barrel because I figure it will help me out with a longer sight radius for irons. I also want the rear sight to be part of a removeable carry handle so I can have the ability to add optics in the future.

Other features that I really do not know about is the necessity of a chromed barrel vs stainless, and I'm assuming most if not all newer styles have a forward assist? The last question is which chambers will allow me to safely shoot 5.56 and .223.

Lastly comes the big issue: I can't find anything like this, and maybe I'm just not looking in the right places. I'm hoping this stuff is not extra features that would cost more. Ideally I want to keep the price below 1000, and hopefully around 8 or 9, but I'm not even sure this is possible. Any help or suggestions would be great. I'm also happy to answer any questions to narrow down what features I should be looking for.
 
You can shoot 5.56 or .223 in 5.56 or RRA's .223 Wylde chambers.

I'd forget the removable carry handle and just get an adjustable rear sight.

Something like this Standard A4 from RRA would suit you well.
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=267
uhstd07.gif


Add to that a nice rear sight like this one and you've got a whole setup.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/st...x?p=24409&title=AR-15/M16 A2-STYLE REAR SIGHT
100003173.jpg


I would upgrade to free float handguards, especially if you plan to sling it.

Chrome-lined and SS barrels are a little more wear-resistant and easier to clean. For your uses, I don't think it matters.
 
if you're getting it for CMP or NRA HP competition, then look at the "National Match" rifles at RRA. they're quite close to what you described.

if you're not planning on competition, then just my advice here... but almost all of the things you describe are really poor choices. I'd recommend signing up for a carbine class and talking to the instructor prior to purchasing anything.
 
CMP rules for service rifle are nearly identical to what you asked for... fixed stock, 20" barrel, iron sights on the carry handle. however, none of those are ideal for a general purpose carbine.

the current "right way" to shoot the ar15 outside of service rifle competition is with your shoulders squared, not 45* like you shoot a garand. that has all sorts of ergonomic advantages once you get used to it, but it also means the fixed stock is way too long for anybody to comfortably do that. I'm 6'5" and usually shoot with a collapsed stock about halfway out. (never fully extended, but sometimes a notch closer to collapsed.)

20" barrel is just too long and too heavy for a general purpose carbine. the only advantage to it is a little extra velocity. just not worth it in almost any scenario, but definitely not if you're mostly shooting under 100 yrds. don't get me wrong... you're totally right about the longer sight-radius helping with iron sites, but unless you're shooting in a competition that requires irons, or your optic is broken, why would you use irons?

carry handle is basically just throwing away $ that should be spent on BUIS and a red dot.
 
I already said that I want to get very profiecient with irons right now and don't want to mount an optics on it for awhile. And I have shot with a fully extended collapsible and didn't find it too long. What other fixed stock options are there? i also measured out the OAL of a 20" Ar with fixed stock and its 2 around inches longer than my 10/22 carbine. And tat thing seems too small to me 37 vs 39(RRA Standard A2/A4 LAR15) inches.

Since its for range work and not home defense I think it would be beneficial. I also don't see 8.5 pounds as too heavy either. I do a lot of range work with a Yugo SKS and the weight and length doesn't bother me. basically I'm just looking for a rifle more than a carbine, and want the ability to eventually move up to optics and longer ranges without having to buy more equipment. I'm not a fan of the current carbine craze and a full size rifle appeals to me more. Also, do any factory rifles come with a carry handle on the flattop? Maybe i should split the difference and look at midlengths?
 
knock yourself out then :) that's my advice and i'm sticking to it
 
A number of factory rifles do come with a flattop ("A3" by most manufacturers, "A4" by Armalite and a few others) and with a carry handle with sights from the factory. I think something from Bushmaster or RRA, or maybe Stag Arms, would suit you nicely. I also like Armalite but their flattops don't have a front sight installed.

I don't think a 20" barrel is too long, personally. I do recommend chrome lined due to its longer life and being easier to clean. Yes, you give up a tiny bit in accuracy. If that's an issue for you, stainless is the way to go. I would also consider a medium profile barrel, like the A2 profile, rather than the heavy profile that is so common in civvie AR15's - unless you're going to do CMP competition, in which case you would be best off just buying a CMP/National Match spec AR15 from the factory, again from Bushmaster or RRA.

The vast majority of AR15s do have a forward assist, but it really isn't important if you do any basic maintenance on the gun.

Most civvie AR15s, other than varmint models, have 5.56mm chambers that are safe for 5.56 or .223. Bushmaster's catalog has a good explanation of the two chambers. The RRA and a few others have the Wylde chamber that is safe for both and maybe a little more accurate.

The following page has Bushmaster models like you're looking for:

http://www.bushmaster.com/competition_rifles.asp?cat=16R

Target models with A3 upper are what you've described. DCM models with A3 upper would do what you're asking and be suitable for serious competition, but would be heavier and cost slightly more up front.
 
My limited experience is that Bushmasters sell for a big discount off MSRP. You might get one of the basic target models (not DCM) for $800-900 or so. They are not the prettiest cosmetically but are well assembled from good parts. That would probably be my starting point. I would get the basic 20" with A3 top, carry handle, and chrome-lined barrel with 5.56mm chamber (the basic model) to start with.
 
A 5.56mm chamber shoots .223 just fine, with zero safety issues and a tiny, tiny loss of potential accuracy. The accuracy loss won't be noticed unless you are competitive in CMP or similar shooting. Bushmaster's catalog has a good, succinct explanation of this.

The Bushmaster A3 uppers I referred to are flattops with a removable carry handle that has sights. An "A3" or "A4" upper always means a flattop with a picatinny rail, but it doesn't always come with a carry handle or sights. And in some cases, like the Armalite A4 versions, it's not easy to adapt to iron sights because the front gas block is just a gas block instead of also being the front sight.
 
FWIW...Armalite was the only outfit of all the ones mentioned
above that could actually ship the same day. The rest had months of back order. I just got an Arma flattop upper for my Bushy...has fixed front post. Got the ARMS 40L for the backside. With an EO 512 she drills holes at 100 yds. (1").

I'd like to know why I don't hear of more Armalites in the forum mix.
 
PDOWG881:

You seem to know what you want and its applications...

Check out the site and give a call to:
R and B Precision ...Phone: 309-534-8175

Talk to Rob - he's quite knowledgable, patient and, dare I say, honest.

He can put together what you like/need, add some suggestions
and come out with a nicely set up Rock River or BM for under $1000.

I purchased my first AR from RB -
Picked up a 16 inch RRA carbine instead of the 20 inch barrel Rob suggested...

In short order, I realized Rob was right -
the 20 inch is simply a more practical and accurate rifle, especially past 100 yds.

The great thing about the AR platform is once you have a lower,
its easy and inexpensive to pick up an upper that you'll appreciate
after the learning curve kicks in. (In fact, you'll build your next rifle!)

I recently finished a build with a DPMS Lo-Pro upper on my original
RRA lower with a Krieger barrel - 26inch, SS, match chamber, fluted.

Just added a new Young Lite Nat'l Match Carrier and bolt from Denny's.

Quite the tack driver!

Good luck!
Docgary

Re: RB precision - Telephone is 'always ' busy..keep calling!
 
Doc...Yes, a bit more...but at $515 (upper) I wasn't too shocked. I was more shocked at the back order from most of the other players, but not as shocked as when I get up and see that gas has gone up a nickel from the day before!!!
GD
 
Update

After trying to forget about it for awhile, I've done more thinking and come up with a plan. I've decided on building the lower and getting an assembled upper. Building looks to be no problem and I'm looking for feedback on my decision with the upper. I was looking at a Del-Ton kit: http://www.del-ton.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=RKT102

For options I was going with chrome lined, and the flat top upper with the carry handle. Also the A2 stock(no additional charge). 465$ is the base price, and the options take it up to 585. It seems like 120$ is a lot just for the handle chromed barrel? Maybe not though because the carry hadnles I've seen on various sites seem to go for more than the 75$ from De-ton.

As for a stripped lower, I've read that the essentail arms lowers are around 75$ and decent qulaity. I'm also going to have to see what kinds of prices the local store has on stripped lowers. But that's my plan so far and it seems like it will be good for my needs.
 
I just finished building a Del-Ton 16" flattop mid-length with the A2 stock about a month ago. I also got the chrome lined barrel and M4 feedramps.

It took 3 days to deliver. Call ahead to make sure the kit you want is in stock.

Chrome lined Barrel - probably worth it in the long run.
M4 Feed ramps - I have no idea if these do anything productive for your application or mine.
Green furniture - Just liked how they looked.
Carry Handle - Bought a used carry handle off this site.

I put it all on a DPMS lower using the instructions on Ar15.com.

What I can tell you is that I have now fired about 600 rounds through the gun. It has not jammed or failed to feed a single time. I have not been using any steel jacket though. It has been more accurate than I am, though we are getting to know each other.

So your plan is sound, and you won't be disappointed. Del-Ton makes good stuff, and I certainly have no complaints.

Best of luck.
 
DPMS Panther bull 20in ~800$ flat top with no sights.

YHM f/r sights 120$. Charging handle should be similarly priced.

Trigger job 32$. Bill Springfield. http://www.triggerwork.net/

Not sure a bull barrel would be fun for long day of hand holding.

Woohoo!

Most places will swap parts for you. I wanted a bull 20, but didn't like the 1050$ price tag of Bushy(fluted barrels, bah!) and RRA.

I shot 1in groups @ 50 yards first day out with Federal bulk ammo from Wal-mart. This was my first real time to shoot an AR. Fast fire made a nice fist-sized group. I really need to get site adjustment tool. The group was about a foot low. rofl.
 
Forney- I'm confused about what you are trying to tell me. I'm just trying to get an opinion on the price/quality. If It's a good price for what I'm getting.
 
Sorry, it sounded like you were doing what I was interested in.

I got a 20in that is good for target and the occasional hunt.

'cept I prefer no carry handle.

chrome lined barrels, from reading, is for ease of cleaning and long life. Supposedly a non chrome-lined is capable of producing tighter groups.

I prefer the old butt stock to the collapsible "tacticool" ones.

1/9 twist, 1/8 twist, 1/7 twist.
 
Chrome Moly steel barrels will last a long time and are more accurate than chrome lined barrels. You can get the whole setup for less than 700. But one thing to think about is the front sight, if you stick with the front sight tower it may get in the way of optics later. Something to think about...
 
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