help me find ,45 auto handgun according to my requirements

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zeeshan

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I have done research into one problem , why the ejected catridges hit my face . its because of bigger ejection ports on glock and hk handguns. the ejection port extends upwards and some rounds are not ejected sideways but upward and backward to the face. what do you think?



plus, i am right handed but my dominant eye is left so gun is right in front of my face so, the probability of ejected catridge hittin my face is higher compared to shooters with right dominant eye.

Currently i am using STOEGER COUGAR 9mm(it is same copy of Brettas COUGAR8000). I have fired nearly 7000 rounds from it without ant problem at all( I consider it as perfect gun except sights are not very good for fast acquistion of target). It has ejection port to the right only and not upwards like glock or hk etc, thatswhy the ejected carteridge never goes upwards and backwars on my face or torso.

Anyways, i want to switch to .45 auto .
can you please guide me in choosing the a handgun in .45 auto with following chracteristics?

1. extreamely reliable and very durable.

2. polygonal barreling and other any features for highest accuracy.

3. ejection port to the right (not extended upwards).

4. decocker and manual safety(with safety on the pin should be blocked and not just the trigger).

5. fast target accquisition sights ( eg 3 dots or glock type sights or straight eight sights, and perferrably night sights to glow in dark).

6. medium or just compact size for concealed carry( but in no way the compactness should compromise the reliability and durability factor. meaning, the size factor can be compromised but not the reliability and long service life factor of the gun).

7. smoothest and lightest trigger pull possible as in my experience trigger pull adds considerably to acccuracy.

8. light weight if possible (but not at the stake of any other traits mentioned above).

9. ejected carteridge should NOT hit my face

10. The gun should not be needed to be cocked for getting locked(meaning the gun should have manual safety, and safety could be activated regardless the hammer is cocked or not unlike cz9mm).

11. lowest possible bore axis for accurate rapid shooting.

your help will be very much appreciated,

zeeshan

[email protected]
 
H&K: USP45 and compact, HK45 and compact
S&W: M&P 45 (if you can live with no decocker, but it is available with a manual safety)
Beretta: PX4 (I think. I can't remember if the decocker/safety meets your requirements or if it's like the CZ).

Jason
 
I was gonna say the CZ75 compact because it covers everything you want, except the .45 part.

hmmm. I honestly don't know of any .45 pistol that fits all of those requirements.
I think your main focus should be figuring out why brass hits you in the forehead on guns that don't fling brass at thousands of other people's foreheads.

It could be your grip, although I'm not sure specifically how. But I know i was shooting with a guy once who was limp-wristing his glock all day and kept getting brass really close to him and lots of jams.

There aren't that many companies that make 45s with a DA/SA trigger and a manual safety that can be activated in either DA or SA mode. The only one that comes to mind if HK, but then they've got the large ejection port.
 
The polygonal rifling requirement is the spoiler. That eliminates almost everything save Kahr, GLOCK, H.K., and Magnum Research. I personally like poly rifling too, but you mentioned you want it for increased accuracy? I wouldn't count on it for that. I like it in compacts and subs to make up for some of the velocity lost in short barrels, but in a full size pistol especially I'd recommend reconsidering conventional rifling just to open up your options (you'd have S&W, C.Z., Taurus, F.N.P., H.K., Ruger, are all availabe with a manual safety and traditional double action; also the X.D. and M&P are now available with a manual safety).

But O.K. if polygonal rifling is really less negotiable than excessive weight, and it must have a safety- then the Magnum Research Baby Eagle in .45 A.C.P. has polygonal rifling, D.A./S.A. with a safety/decocker... and weighs nearly 3lbs! THat's the danger of letting a rigid list of criteria determine a choice, you can sometimes miss the forest for the trees.

And zeeshan, are you certain you're not letting the GLOCK and H.K. torque in your grip a little? THe fact that brass in the face is happening with BOTH of those makes me wonder (are they both .45's just out of curiosity)? Because the U.S.P. is pretty much what best meets your criteria and I'd recommend it long before the B.E., J.M.O. and Y.M.M.V.

Hey if your COUGAR really is "perfect" except for the sights, can you upgrade to N.S.?


Good luck!
 
Now, if the gun was consistently ejecting brass directly into your forehead EVERY single time, yeah that would get a little annoying. Out of all the guns I've shot, I have never had one consistently eject to the rear like that, so I highly doubt that is going to happen on a properly functioning gun.

As far as eye dominance, that's not an issue and that ~1-2" difference at most in gun alignment with your left eye is not going to all of a sudden cause the gun to start ejecting into your face. I'm cross dominant (right hand left eye) and do not have that problem.

1) Most modern large scale production guns are reliable and durable. There are exceptions of course. For the most part, if you buy from Sig, S&W, H&K, Para Ordnance, Springfield, Colt, etc etc (plenty more where that came from) you are going to get a decent gun ~90-95% of the time.

2) Polygonal rifling doesn't matter. It's nice and all but, don't base a gun purchase purely off that. At most it maybe accounts for MAYBE a 50fps improvement in velocity. Again, not a big deal, don't worry about it.

7) Trigger pull weight has nothing to do with accuracy. Pull the trigger properly and, provided you are aligning the sights properly, your shots will be accurate. Trigger pull simply makes it easier. Something in the 4.5-6.0lb range will get the job done. Much heavier than that and it can be harder for some people. At the same time, this doesn't mean that everyone necessarily needs match grade 2lb trigger pulls, and for many uses like self defense it actually could be a bad idea to have too light of a pull.

11) Bore axis is over rated. Your grip method has a lot to do with improving speed in follow up shots. I've seen some people shoot some relatively high bore axis guns incredibly fast because they were gripping the gun in just the right manner so as to make the gun recoil more rearward as opposed to muzzle flipping more vertical. Don't worry about this. Just don't get a Hi Point and you'll be fine. ;)


As far as the spent brass in the face goes, here's a thought. Could you possibly be limp wristing or just simply not quite controlling the recoil enough so you are getting pretty vertical muzzle flip? If so, if it's vertical enough this could possibly ease the rounds back in a rearward direction as they are ejecting.
 
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Yep, what wheelgunslinger said, or the Beretta PX4 in .45 auto.
I'm a big fan of the S&W 4566, 4516, check them out, or their aluminum framed equivalents on the used markets.
Or perhaps the new M&P45 or M&P45c.
 
erratic ejection has nothing to do with the ejection port being enlarged upward. Extractor tension and ejector length, possibly the angle of the ejector face as well, play a role.

The ejection port on those pistols has to be enlarged upward so that the barrel can lock into it since it doesn't have locking lugs.
 
As far as eye dominance, that's not an issue and that ~1-2" difference at most in gun alignment with your left eye is not going to all of a sudden cause the gun to start ejecting into your face. I'm cross dominant (right hand left eye) and do not have that problem.
Click to expand...

I'm left eye dominate and shoot an HK UPS with my right hand. Never had a problem with brass in my face.
 
Face brass

Once had the same problem with brass in the face and it was easy to cure. I was shooting WWB ammo and switched to PMC, problem solved. The PMC seemed to be slightly hotter ammo which cycled the slide a little faster and threw the brass further away. Change ammo brands and see if that cures the problem.
 
Im a big fan of the Baby Eagle .45 auto. Has a good feel to it, ambi safety/decock, nice rifling, reliable.... The .45 is not the most compact model that they make but I carry it fairly easily. It also definitely ejects to the right side. It throws the brass 25-30 feet away, which sometimes is a hassle since I try to reload and they are difficult to pick out of the grass.

I would suggest looking into them, it may suit your needs. They are considerably less expensive than some of the other options being suggested.
 
well has anyone had the same experience with hk and glock as i have?
Click to expand...
Nope. I've never had one piece of brass hit me in the head (or at all for that matter)with either a USP45 or any Glock. The only brass I've ever had that's hit me with either of those was brass that ejected and hit the stall and bounced back over onto me.

Jason
 
The polygonal rifling requirement is the spoiler. That eliminates almost everything save Kahr, GLOCK, H.K., and Magnum Research. I personally like poly rifling too, but you mentioned you want it for increased accuracy? I wouldn't count on it for that. I like it in compacts and subs to make up for some of the velocity lost in short barrels, but in a full size pistol especially I'd recommend reconsidering conventional rifling just to open up your options (you'd have S&W, C.Z., Taurus, F.N.P., H.K., Ruger, are all availabe with a manual safety and traditional double action; also the X.D. and M&P are now available with a manual safety).

But O.K. if polygonal rifling is really less negotiable than excessive weight, and it must have a safety- then the Magnum Research Baby Eagle in .45 A.C.P. has polygonal rifling, D.A./S.A. with a safety/decocker... and weighs nearly 3lbs! THat's the danger of letting a rigid list of criteria determine a choice, you can sometimes miss the forest for the trees.

And zeeshan, are you certain you're not letting the GLOCK and H.K. torque in your grip a little? THe fact that brass in the face is happening with BOTH of those makes me wonder (are they both .45's just out of curiosity)? Because the U.S.P. is pretty much what best meets your criteria and I'd recommend it long before the B.E., J.M.O. and Y.M.M.V.

Hey if your COUGAR really is "perfect
Click to expand...
well. i have hk usp compact 9mm and glock17.
by if you mean sights with N.S then i cant find any sights for my stoeger in my country(pakistan)
 
1.
I'm still a relative amateur however, I've shot enough that I don't even think twice about the brass flying, don't blink or flinch or anything if it flies close to my head or actually hits me. As far as I'm concerned it's just not something to worry about
Click to expand...
you will blink and flinch after one hot ejected shells hits you right in your eye or gets stuck between your glasses and eye. secondly,if you are in self defense situation and your own gun spits brass on your eyeball....think!
thirdly, even if it doesnt hit your eye ball but you know it can then again your gun will make you more nervous than the guy attacking you. think!

2.
Polygonal rifling doesn't matter. It's nice and all but, don't base a gun purchase purely off that. At most it maybe accounts for MAYBE a 50fps improvement in velocity. Again, not a big deal, don't worry about it.
Click to expand...

well, higher velocity = you can deal with person trying to kill you at longer distances. would you like to deal with your attacker at relatively closer distance? think!

3.
As far as the spent brass in the face goes, here's a thought. Could you possibly be limp wristing or just simply not quite controlling the recoil enough so you are getting pretty vertical muzzle flip? If so, if it's vertical enough this could possibly ease the rounds back in a rearward direction as they are ejecting
Click to expand...
well, please scroll up and read my thread"Currently i am using STOEGER COUGAR 9mm(it is same copy of Brettas COUGAR8000). I have fired nearly 7000 rounds from it without ant problem at all( I consider it as perfect gun except sights are not very good for fast acquistion of target). It has ejection port to the right only and not upwards like glock or hk etc, thatswhy the ejected carteridge never goes upwards and backwars on my face or torso"
anyways , i own cz and stoeger cougar too and if the problem was limp wristing or any other crap, one out of hundreds of rounds whcih i fired from them must have hit me.
secondly, cant you see any similarity between stoeger cougar+ cz 75(original) and hk usp compact + glock17? think!
 
The ejection port on those pistols has to be enlarged upward so that the barrel can lock into it since it doesn't have locking lugs.
Click to expand...
can you please this. what are locking lugs? canyou recommend me any site where i can see the pics of locking lugs?
 
Once had the same problem with brass in the face and it was easy to cure. I was shooting WWB ammo and switched to PMC, problem solved. The PMC seemed to be slightly hotter ammo which cycled the slide a little faster and threw the brass further away. Change ammo brands and see if that cures the problem.
Click to expand...

i really feel you are close. hotter the loads and lesser times glock's brass spitted on my face . with lesser grains it was 10 out of 50 and with higher grains , it was 10 out of 100. but does that mean glock is not suitable for less hotter loads or what?
 
Rotate 90 degrees right

Gotta be your technique Zeeshan; if you're using that gangsta grip with the gun rotated left then it is throwing right, but not where you want it. Adjust your technique so the sights are on top.

Just kidding; thought I'd throw a little levity into the situation. I would be less than helpful as I mostly shoot 1911's; they are the only thing I've ever had that problem with; hotter ammo might be part of the solution, In a 1911, filing an angle on the ejector finger seems to encourage to throw right (Longer on the outside; angle is right to left, back to front).

Someone mentioned extractor tension?
What happens if you tighten up a bit?

Cheers, TF
 
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