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Help needed to consolidate loads to one powder.

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by LightningMan, Mar 24, 2013.

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  1. LightningMan

    LightningMan Member

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    Hello all, I'm wanting a little help with getting some more exact load data so I can use one powder for my reloads on my Dillon 550B press. First, a little background and reason for doing so. In the past 4 years I've been using a RCBS rock-chucker for loading my .45 acp, 9mm luger, & .40 S&W, which I would probably still be doing if it weren't for the dissappearance of .22 LR ammo. I would usually maybe shoot 100-200 rds. of one of these calibers a week, plus a brick of .22 rounds. While it didn't take too long to reload the center-fire rounds with the rock-chucker, but due to the shortage of .22 LR ammo, I've been shooting a lot more center fire ammo. So I've decided to include the above calibers to be loaded on my Dillon press, which up till now have only been loading .38 specials for my Cowboy action ammo. I've got what I need to reload for these calibers ( 9mm, 40 S&W .45acp ) but would like to get data for all using one kind of powder, and that powder is Winchester 231, as I have a lot of it, besides it meters well in my Dillon better than Unique or Bullseye. Ok cut to the chase, I use SNS cast bullets for all three, 200 gr. SWC for .45s, 180 gr. FP for .40 S&W and 125 gr. RN for 9mm. I have a general idea about how much powder to charge them with, but would like actual data from those with experence who have used SNS cast bullets & Win 231 powder, instead of book data that doesn't have the exact bullet or the OAL needed for them. Thanks for any help in advance, LM.
     
  2. noylj

    noylj Member

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    I don't understand the problem--any good reloading manual has data for 231/HP38 for these rounds. Are you looking for the "magical" charge weight that will guarantee accuracy? If so, it doesn't exist.
    For COL, it depends not just on the bullets, but also what COL your magazine will feed and what COL your ramp and chamber will easily feed.
    >I use SNS cast bullets for all three, 200 gr. SWC for .45s, 180 gr. FP for .40 S&W and 125 gr. RN for 9mm.

    For the 200gn L-SWC for .45 Auto, I have had best success with 4.8-5.2gn 231/HP38. 5.4gn is as high as I have gone. I set COL such that there is some shoulder above the case mouth and I use the barrel to ensure that the COL sets the case head just below the barrel ramp--thus, minimizing the headspace. This is usually 1.24-1.26"
    For 180gn .40S&W, I have had best success with 4.0-4.8gn 231/HP38. COL is usually 1.135-1.175", though I have successfully loaded all the way up to 1.225".
    I have not had any great success with 121-125gn bullets and 231/HP38, though 4.0-5.1gn has been OK. COL has generally been 1.080-1.125", with most being right at 1.100".
    Here is my compilation of data. Start at lowest start load and approach each max load carefully.

    Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Note Power Factor COL
    L-SWC 195 231/HP38 3.9 642 Start 125
    Lyman 452460 L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.0 694 Start 139 1.161
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.1 Several small groups 0
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.1 726 25 yd 145
    Bull-X L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.2 748 Target 150
    Rainier P-HP 200 231/HP38 4.4 609 Start 122
    Rainier P-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.4 640 Start 128
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.4 771 Start 154 1.225
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.4 798 50 yd 160
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.4 718 25 yd 144
    Cast L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.5 808 Start/Acc. 162
    Cast L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.5 719 Start 144
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.5 Acc. 0.928" base to shoulder
    Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 4.6 760 V. Acc. 152
    swaged L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.6 739 Start/Acc. 148 1.185
    Rainier P-FP 200 231/HP38 4.6 611 Start 122
    Rainier P-HP 200 231/HP38 4.6 630 Start 126
    Rainier P-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.6 647 Start 129
    Case L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.6 Bullseye/Practice
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.6 Acc. 0.928" base to shoulder
    Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 4.6 714 143 1.202
    Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 4.6 745 149
    Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 4.6 760 152
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.8 800 Start 160
    Lead 200 231/HP38 4.8 804 Start 161
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.8 796 50 yd 159
    swaged L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.8 650 4.8-5.3gn 130
    Carroll L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 787 V. Acc. 157
    Rainier P-FP 200 231/HP38 5.0 687 Start 137
    swaged L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 803 Max 161 1.185
    Cast L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 811 Max 162
    Cast L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 892 Max 178
    Hdy L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 714 143 1.225
    Montana LBT-RFN 200 231/HP38 5.0 739 148 1.241
    Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 5.0 766 153 1.202
    LS L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 797 159 1.240
    RCBS #45-201K L-SWC 201 231/HP38 5.0 800 161
    Lyman 452460 200 231/HP38 5.0 805 161 1.161
    RCBS 45-201-KT SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 810 162 1.240
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.1 Target 0 1.224
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.2 739 Start 148
    L-SWC, L-C/T 200 231/HP38 5.2 800 Start 160
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.2 850 Max/Favorite 170 1.250
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.3 Target-Acc. 0
    Hdy L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.3 Acc. 0
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.3 Acc. 0
    Lyman 452630 L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.4 769 Start 154 1.235
    Hdy L-SWC, L-C/T 200 231/HP38 5.4 800 Start 160 1.200–1.225
    Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 5.4 814 163
    Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 5.4 821 164 1.202
    Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 5.4 857 171
    L-SWC, L-RN 200 231/HP38 5.5 910 Max 182
    Bull-X L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 865 Acc 173
    Bull-X L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 840 168
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 841 168 1.263
    Carroll L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 850 170
    LS L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 865 173 1.240
    RCBS 45-201-KT SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 880 176 1.240
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 908 182
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.6 914 Max 183 1.225
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.6 920 Max 184
    L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.6 854 171
    L-SWC 195 231/HP38 5.7 962 Max 188

    Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Note P.F. COL
    L-SWC 180 231/HP38 3.5 744 134 1.135
    L-SWC 180 231/HP38 3.5 737 133 1.135
    Hdy L-SWC 180 231/HP38 3.8 750 Start 135 1.125
    LC L-TC 180 231/HP38 4.1 815 147
    FP 180 231/HP38 4.3 899 162 1.190
    RCBS40-180-CMRNFP 180 231/HP38 4.5 863 155
    L-RNFP 177 231/HP38 4.5 833 147
    LC L-TC 180 231/HP38 4.6 947 170
    Lyman 401043L-FP 180 231/HP38 5.0 975 Start 176
    FP 180 231/HP38 5.0 989 178 1.190
    Lyman 401043LFP 180 231/HP38 5.5 1037 187
    swaged L-SWC 180 231/HP38 5.7 950 Max 171

    Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Note P.F. COL
    L-CFP 121 231/HP38 2.9 963 Start 117
    L-RN 121 231/HP38 3.0 1010 Start 122
    L-RN 124 231/HP38 3.3 910 Start 113
    Bull-X L-FN 122 231/HP38 3.5 1024 Start 125
    MasterCast L-CN 125 231/HP38 3.5 1028 Start 129 1.100
    Lead 124 231/HP38 3.6 Start 0
    Speer L-RN 125 231/HP38 3.8 911 Start 114 1.130
    Magma L-RN 126 231/HP38 3.8 970 122 1.110
    L-CN 125 231/HP38 3.9 1009 Start 126 1.125
    Speer L-RN 125 231/HP38 3.9 917 Start 115 1.130
    SAECO 377 123 231/HP38 4.0 999 poor accuracy 123 1.080
    L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.0 1035 Max 128
    Plated 124 231/HP38 4.0 Accurate 0
    Alberts swaged Lead 125 231/HP38 4.0 941 Acc 118 1.110
    Alberts swaged Lead 125 231/HP38 4.0 905 113 1.110
    L-FP 122 231/HP38 4.0 1081 132 1.070
    Magma L-RN 126 231/HP38 4.0 967 122 1.110
    Magma L-RN 126 231/HP38 4.0 998 126 1.110
    Magnus L-FN 122 231/HP38 4.0 1096 134 1.142
    NBC L-FN 122 231/HP38 4.0 1088 133 1.142
    Bayou Bullet 125 231/HP38 4.0 1013 127 1.130
    Bayou Bullet 125 231/HP38 4.0 1012 127 1.130
    Lead 124 231/HP38 4.1 Stock service pistol 0
    Lead 124 231/HP38 4.1 Minor 0
    L-RN 121 231/HP38 4.1 1148 Max 139
    Speer L-RN 125 231/HP38 4.1 982 Max 123 1.130
    Speer L-RN 125 231/HP38 4.2 995 Max 124 1.130
    L-FP 122 231/HP38 4.2 1068 Accurate 130
    L-SWC 125 231/HP38 4.2 1153 Accurate 144
    Magma L-RN 126 231/HP38 4.2 1009 Acc 127 1.110
    L-FN 122 231/HP38 4.2 1033 126
    L-RN 125 231/HP38 4.2 1040 130
    L-RN 125 231/HP38 4.2 1062 133
    L-SWC 125 231/HP38 4.2 1023 128
    Magma L-RN 126 231/HP38 4.2 1032 130 1.110
    RCBS 9mm-125-RN-GC 123 231/HP38 4.2 1034 127
    RCBS 9mm-125-RNGC 123 231/HP38 4.2 1034 127
    Bayou Bullet 125 231/HP38 4.2 1046 131 1.130
    Bayou Bullet 125 231/HP38 4.2 1052 132 1.130
    L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.3 1071 133 1.130
    L-CFP 121 231/HP38 4.4 1264 Max 153
    L-CN 125 231/HP38 4.4 1086 Max 136 1.125
    Lyman 356242 L-RN 120 231/HP38 4.4 1073 129
    Lyman 356242 L-RN 120 231/HP38 4.4 1092 131
    Lyman 356242 L-RN 120 231/HP38 4.4 1104 132
    Lyman 356242 L-RN 120 231/HP38 4.4 1111 133
    Lyman 356242 L-RN 120 231/HP38 4.4 1116 134
    Oregon Trail L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.4 988 123
    Oregon Trail L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.4 1022 127
    Oregon Trail L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.4 1022 127
    Oregon Trail L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.4 1024 127
    Oregon Trail L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.4 1039 129
    Oregon Trail L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.4 1061 132
    Bayou Bullet 125 231/HP38 4.4 1070 134 1.130
    Bayou Bullet 125 231/HP38 4.4 1071 134 1.130
    L-CFN 124 231/HP38 4.5 1015 Start 126
    Lee 356-125-2R 126 231/HP38 4.5 1052 poor accuracy 133 1.160
    Magma L-RN 126 231/HP38 4.5 1076 136 1.110
    RCBS 9mm-125-RNGC 123 231/HP38 4.5 1034 127
    L-RN 125 231/HP38 4.6 1104 Start 138
    Berry's P-RN 124 231/HP38 4.6 1100 136 1.135
    L-RN 125 231/HP38 4.7 1094 Start 137
    L-CFN 124 231/HP38 5.0 1135 MaX 141
    L-RN 125 231/HP38 5.0 1130 Max 141
    Lyman 356402 120 231/HP38 5.0 1195 143
    L-RN 125 231/HP38 5.1 1122 Max 140
    Lyman 356402 120 231/HP38 5.5 1250 150
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  3. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    If you have a manual- and you DO, correct? - then your question is already answered
     
  4. LightningMan

    LightningMan Member

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    noylj, thanks for your reply, I should have included the OAL of each which is 1.130 for 9mm, 1.125 for .40 S&W, and 1.245 for .45 acp. As for manual I have three, and several pamplets and have looked at some others, but because of no two books have the exact same data or list X brand bullet or another, I just wanted to hear from someone whom has used what I'm wanting to use. I have already used 231 for .45 acp using 5.0 grs. which seemed like a pretty good load, and it looks like it falls within what your using. I have yet to try .40 S&W or 9mm but my thoughts were 4.4 grs. for .40 and 4.0 grs. for 9mm. The only other bullets I've tried using 231 were Berry's plated 115 gr. & 124 gr. bullets for 9mm, but have not tried SNS cast RN bullets with 231 yet. Thanks again. LM
     
  5. GCBurner

    GCBurner Member

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    Winchester 231 powder works fine with all three of those calibres. If that's what you've got, you will be fine, and only stocking one powder simplifies things.
     
  6. gacajun

    gacajun Member

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    I have loads for Universal Clays that work well for all of the calibers you mentioned. If you shoot cowboy action like I do you'll also find you can use it for your shotshells.
     
  7. GCBurner

    GCBurner Member

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    Red Dot works for all of them, too, and is also a shotshell powder. I use Red Dot a lot for 9mm practice loads, just because I got a lot of it fairly cheap.
     
  8. One78Shovel

    One78Shovel Member

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    I use Universal Clays for all my pistol loads in 9,38,357,40,45

    -178S
     
  9. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    When I started loading almost 3 decades ago I loaded almost all of my pistol rounds with 231 that were "pinker" range. I haven't used it in quite a while for anything but I still have some in metal cans left over.

    I think of myself as 231, can do just about anything but not the "best" at any of them.
     
  10. LightningMan

    LightningMan Member

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    GCBurner Quote;Winchester 231 powder works fine with all three of those calibres. If that's what you've got, you will be fine, and only stocking one powder simplifies things.

    Thanks that the exact reason I'm trying to simplify this is so I don't have to change the powder in the only dispencer I have at the moment, and as stated above in the original post that I have a lot of 231. BTW I have other powders but of the three I could use for all calibers I list, Bullseye, Unique & 231, 231 meters the best in my despencer. LM
     
  11. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    W231 is a good choice if you want to use only one powder.

    In the 45 Auto w/200gr SWC I like a charge of 5.5gr W231.
    In the 9mm w/124/125gr LRN I like a charge of 4.0gr to 4.4gr W231 but use 4.0gr most.
    In the .38 Special w/158gr LSWC a charge of 4.0gr W231 is my favorite load.
    In the 40 S&W w/180 LFP bullet my friend loads 4.9gr W231.
     
  12. GCBurner

    GCBurner Member

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    The same powder is fine, just as long as you remember not to use the same CHARGE of powder. :)
     
  13. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    I went from Unique to Universal because it is somewhat cleaner. Red Dot, Bullseye, Clays, and a whole host of others will all work for what you are shooting - and many work for shotgun as well, which I like
    I can load all of my shotgun and handgun ammo with just two powders
     
  14. oldpapps

    oldpapps Member

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    I agree with your choice of 231.

    I also use it for my 'powder-puff' .44 Mag load. 240g lswc over 5.6g 231 in mag brass with standard LP primers - 650ish FPS.

    Same charge under 200g lswc .452 (last batch weighed in at 204 grains) - 850ish FPS.

    I use 155g lead in 40S&W, still use 231. (5.3g for 910ish FPS)

    The brother runs 125g lfp cone with 4g of 231 and gets 1030ish FPS from his 9MM.

    For information only, loading information may not be safe in your weapon.... You know the drill. Be safe.
     
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