shooter.45
Member
Does anyone have either one of these and how do they like or dislike them?? SIG P232 or a Walther/S&W 380. I am kind of confused on which one..
Thanks
Thanks
Help on .380
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Matt Sutton
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- Dec 24, 2002
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I had a Walther PPK/s imported by interarms. 380ACP blowback operated guns have very snappy recoil. I ended up selling it for a Sig P239 9mm which is not a lot bigger, and recoiled less.
I've seen several Kahr MK9s for $400 lately. They are virtually the same size as the PPK, but shoot 9mm and are locked breech.
I've seen several Kahr MK9s for $400 lately. They are virtually the same size as the PPK, but shoot 9mm and are locked breech.
Omaha-BeenGlockin
Member
Yup--stay away from the blow-backs---recoil is all out of proportion to their power.
Yup, stay away from blow-backs they are accurate and reliable. I don't think they are harsh in recoil, but to each his/her own. The 9x18 Makarov I have has seen some pretty hot ammo, but I shoot it accurately and don't mind the recoil. It is all steel though. Look for a Mak in .380 if you want a .380 cheap. Otherwise the 9x18 is a good round and is available as cheap surplus, but not at Wallyworld. Many gunshops carry 9x18 though.
Gunner45
Member
Or if you can find one do your self a favor and get a Colt Mustang Pocketlite. Mrs. Gunner45 got me one for christmas two years ago. It's my "allways" gun. I just drop it in my front pocket as I grab the car keys. A good friend of mine has the sig. It's a very well made gun, just a little big for the .380 in my opinion. Colt did make a DAO mustang like gun called the Pony. I havn't shoot a pony to tell you about the trigger, but my mustang has a sweet trigger.
Gunner45
Gunner45
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
I used to be a big fan of Colt Mustang/Govt 380. Then I owned one and it was 1) inaccurate (5" at 10m) and 2) repeatedely self-destructed over 50-100 rounds due to soft metal used in the slide and barrel lugs 
Tried a PPK in .380, that was painful!
Makarov in 380 or 9x18 is cheap, accurate, reliable and streamlined. It is also heavy and I dislike the safety design.
Currently have a Sig 232 which I wouldn't have picked had I not fired it first. More expensive and finish is prone to rust. But it is slim, simple to the extreme, very accurate (1" at 10m) and recoil, though brisk, isn't painful due to well-designed grip. I'd pick a Kahr P9 over it if I had to pick, but 232 is a reliable and light 380.
Tried a PPK in .380, that was painful!
Makarov in 380 or 9x18 is cheap, accurate, reliable and streamlined. It is also heavy and I dislike the safety design.
Currently have a Sig 232 which I wouldn't have picked had I not fired it first. More expensive and finish is prone to rust. But it is slim, simple to the extreme, very accurate (1" at 10m) and recoil, though brisk, isn't painful due to well-designed grip. I'd pick a Kahr P9 over it if I had to pick, but 232 is a reliable and light 380.
itgoesboom
member
I know its not on your list, but if you are considering a .380 that is the size of the Walther or the SIG, you should probably also check out the Bersa.
Its dirt cheap, but extremely reliable. You can check the archives at TFL, and you will see a ton of people who have them and love them, me included.
Just another option for you.
I.G.B.
Its dirt cheap, but extremely reliable. You can check the archives at TFL, and you will see a ton of people who have them and love them, me included.
Just another option for you.
I.G.B.
Kentucky Rifle
Member In Memoriam
Oleg...
Did your Colt .380 happen to be a blue model? I've heard those soft slide stories WAYYYyyy to much to ignore them. However, they've always been about a "blue" model. Never the stainless. I have had a stainless slide/alloy frame Mustang Pocketlite for years and keep a close eye on the slide catch notch on the left side of the slide.
No wear to report. Mine also seems quite accurate out to about 40 or 50 feet. (I haven't tried to fire my Mustang at greater ranges than ~50 feet.)
KR
Did your Colt .380 happen to be a blue model? I've heard those soft slide stories WAYYYyyy to much to ignore them. However, they've always been about a "blue" model. Never the stainless. I have had a stainless slide/alloy frame Mustang Pocketlite for years and keep a close eye on the slide catch notch on the left side of the slide.
No wear to report. Mine also seems quite accurate out to about 40 or 50 feet. (I haven't tried to fire my Mustang at greater ranges than ~50 feet.)
KR
Gunner45
Member
My Mustang is a Stainless Pocketlite. I have not had a single problem. Slide lock notch still looks it did when came out of the box. My mustang shoots so well that after shooting mine two of my shooting buds ran out and got one each. Kirk got a blued pocketlite and Michael got an all steel Mustang. By the way you really can feel the differance in the weight when its in your front pocket. Both or thier mustangs have been sweet shooters as well. All though I think that mine has the best trigger of the trio.
Gunner45
Gunner45
dd-b
Member
If it's for defensive carry and you want .380 so it's small, be sure to look at what Kahr has done with guns like their pm9. Lots of .380s are bigger than the better small 9mm, which seems kinda pointless for defense.
Of course, if you just want a .380 because, well go for it!
Of course, if you just want a .380 because, well go for it!
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
My Govt.380 was nickeled blue carbon steel, not stainless. It was an expensive and unpleasant disappointment, as I've wanted one for many years.
Walther P99
Member
I own the SIG P230 which is pretty much the same as the P232. It's a great gun and very concealable but I have to agree with the others who say the blowback action leads to a very snappy recoil. It's actually has the most felt recoil of any gun I've owned.
MADDOG
Member
CZ---83--you can't go wrong with this one.
MrAcheson
Member
I did a bunch of research on this because a .380 is on my buy list for when I get my CCW.
The Walthers are a crap shoot. The new S&Ws are a step up in quality and have taken steps to counter many classic Walther problems like slide bite, sharp corners, and finicky feeding which made the Interarms PPKs less than desireable carry guns.
The Sig is a nice gun by all accounts. Good sights etc. Heavy but thats not uncommon for a .380.
Try a Bersa if you can. They look a lot like a PPK/S and they're inexpensive but not cheap (~$200). They're accurate and reliable and have the mag release where it belongs on an auto unlike the Walther and Sig. Lots of folks have tried and like them. Do a search of TFL using "bersa thunder .380" to see a few.
The Walthers are a crap shoot. The new S&Ws are a step up in quality and have taken steps to counter many classic Walther problems like slide bite, sharp corners, and finicky feeding which made the Interarms PPKs less than desireable carry guns.
The Sig is a nice gun by all accounts. Good sights etc. Heavy but thats not uncommon for a .380.
Try a Bersa if you can. They look a lot like a PPK/S and they're inexpensive but not cheap (~$200). They're accurate and reliable and have the mag release where it belongs on an auto unlike the Walther and Sig. Lots of folks have tried and like them. Do a search of TFL using "bersa thunder .380" to see a few.
PCRCCW
Member
Honestly ...I agree with the 'why not 9mm" crowd on this one....
For the same money as either gun your talking about..a Kahr is simply a very nice gun at the same price and bigger boom.
If your set on a .380....The Sig is smooth and refined...not that heavily built, limited capacity and very spendy..the Walther is the same style gun but somewhat smaller...not as dependable...more heavily built, gorgeous and still has smaller capacity......
If you want the Walther style gun...for the money get a Bersa...seriously. Its controls are Sig refined, very accurate...a Sig without the Sig price....
If you want the .380 to have; get a CZ83.....built on the Makarov chambered CZ82 frame, so it will take +p for a lifetime, holds 14-15 rnds with the right mags...trigger is HEAVENLY...points better than the others and mine grouped 1.9" at 25 yds from a fixtured rest.....5 rnds.
Not that thats really good for a sub 4" barrel compact gun....imported and bought for around $300.00.....its excellent.
Shoot all of them that you can and see what you like......
shoot well
For the same money as either gun your talking about..a Kahr is simply a very nice gun at the same price and bigger boom.
If your set on a .380....The Sig is smooth and refined...not that heavily built, limited capacity and very spendy..the Walther is the same style gun but somewhat smaller...not as dependable...more heavily built, gorgeous and still has smaller capacity......
If you want the Walther style gun...for the money get a Bersa...seriously. Its controls are Sig refined, very accurate...a Sig without the Sig price....
If you want the .380 to have; get a CZ83.....built on the Makarov chambered CZ82 frame, so it will take +p for a lifetime, holds 14-15 rnds with the right mags...trigger is HEAVENLY...points better than the others and mine grouped 1.9" at 25 yds from a fixtured rest.....5 rnds.
Not that thats really good for a sub 4" barrel compact gun....imported and bought for around $300.00.....its excellent.
Shoot all of them that you can and see what you like......
shoot well
Walther P99
Member
OK, since we're talking .380s, how about a Sphinx AT-380? I've heard nothing but good things about the Swiss-made Sphinxes.
Although they currently have no US importer, I've been in contact with them and they report that they have an improter lined up and will return to the US shortly; I'm very interested in their AT 2000 models for my next CCW/home defense handgun.
Anyway, I'm not sure if they'll still import the .380 model, but it's definitely worth looking into. Used models are available for around $450-$500.
Happy hunting.
Although they currently have no US importer, I've been in contact with them and they report that they have an improter lined up and will return to the US shortly; I'm very interested in their AT 2000 models for my next CCW/home defense handgun.
Anyway, I'm not sure if they'll still import the .380 model, but it's definitely worth looking into. Used models are available for around $450-$500.
Happy hunting.
chaim
Member
Never shot the Walther but the SIG 230 I shot was pretty sweet. I thought long and hard about buying one on a number of occasions.
When I finally did buy a .380 I went with a Bersa instead. Why? They are well made (though not up to the fit and finish of the PPK or 230/232), decent looking, highly reliable and incredibly accurate (the fixed barrel helps)- all traits of the SIG, but it only cost me $215 brand spanking new (or in other words, I paid less money than I saved on the cost of a SIG 230/232 or Walther PPK in that I saved $250-300).
When I finally did buy a .380 I went with a Bersa instead. Why? They are well made (though not up to the fit and finish of the PPK or 230/232), decent looking, highly reliable and incredibly accurate (the fixed barrel helps)- all traits of the SIG, but it only cost me $215 brand spanking new (or in other words, I paid less money than I saved on the cost of a SIG 230/232 or Walther PPK in that I saved $250-300).
PCRCCW
Member
I know where there is an Sphinx AT 380 for around 350$...if your ever in the southwest.....Shoot well
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denfoote
Member
I have the Walther. It conceals and shoots well, but not as well as the Makarov!!!
Don't like Sigs!!
Don't like Sigs!!
AK103K
member
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- Dec 27, 2002
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- 7,610
I'll throw in for the SIG P230's. I have a couple, I like them that much. I've had Walthers, and if its German made and assembled, its ok, stay away from the ones made here. I never noticed the recoil on the SIG being "snappy", the Walther, maybe a little. I think 9mm is snappy, no matter what you shoot it in, unless it has a stock. I carry one of my 230's daily, and have had no rust problems with it, I do wipe it twice a day though. I got mine at good prices so I didnt have a choice of finish with that or I would have gone stainless. I sweat like a pig and its not good for anything but hard chrome or stainless. But so far, the SIG is doing ok.
I carry one of my 230's daily, and have had no rust problems with it, I do wipe it twice a day though. I got mine at good prices so I didnt have a choice of finish with that or I would have gone stainless. I sweat like a pig and its not good for anything but hard chrome or stainless. But so far, the SIG is doing ok.Captain Bligh
Member
I'll chime in here. I own a Sig 232. I think the .380 is much maligned on internet forums. Invariably someone asks the "this .380 or that .380?" question. You can always count on the posters that reply "buy 9mm." I think some guys already own 9mm and just want a .380. My goal is to have one of every caliber and my .380 is a Sig.
I like my 232 a bunch. It's not my preferred carry gun but it's a sometimes carry gun. The blowback recoil is stout but not uncomfortable. It's nothing like shooting my .357. I think some expect a .380 to recoil like a .22 because the bullet is so small so they are surprised that it recoils like a larger caliber. I'm not recoil sensitive so that's not an issue for me.
The 232 is very well made and very reliable. Mine has never suffered any kind of functional failure. None. I can't say that about other semi-autos that I own. I like the slim profile. It's flatness aides concealment considerably. It's hard to find a thinner gun to carry. Yes, the Kahr is about the same size but it's a lot thicker. Yes, the .380 round is the minimum you'd want to carry for self-defense but the gun is pretty accurate so I think accuracy makes up for that. Shot placement. Shot placement. Shot placement.
I hear that Walther's are iffy. Some good; some unreliable. Many also experience web bites on their hands from Walther slides. That has been corrected with the new design (S&W) but is a problem on older ones. This happens less so with Sigs but you may want to check it out to see how your hand fits.
Life is short. If you want a .380 in the collection, buy it. If you want a Walther for it's sleek lines or James Bond image, buy it. As for me, I sure like my Sig. 232!
Randy
I like my 232 a bunch. It's not my preferred carry gun but it's a sometimes carry gun. The blowback recoil is stout but not uncomfortable. It's nothing like shooting my .357. I think some expect a .380 to recoil like a .22 because the bullet is so small so they are surprised that it recoils like a larger caliber. I'm not recoil sensitive so that's not an issue for me.
The 232 is very well made and very reliable. Mine has never suffered any kind of functional failure. None. I can't say that about other semi-autos that I own. I like the slim profile. It's flatness aides concealment considerably. It's hard to find a thinner gun to carry. Yes, the Kahr is about the same size but it's a lot thicker. Yes, the .380 round is the minimum you'd want to carry for self-defense but the gun is pretty accurate so I think accuracy makes up for that. Shot placement. Shot placement. Shot placement.
I hear that Walther's are iffy. Some good; some unreliable. Many also experience web bites on their hands from Walther slides. That has been corrected with the new design (S&W) but is a problem on older ones. This happens less so with Sigs but you may want to check it out to see how your hand fits.
Life is short. If you want a .380 in the collection, buy it. If you want a Walther for it's sleek lines or James Bond image, buy it. As for me, I sure like my Sig. 232!
Randy
PCRCCW
Member
Are you thinking of a Glock.....????????????? Comparing a Kahr to a Sig 232 in thickness.........
The Sig is 1.200"
The Kahr is .900" at the slide and 1.06 at the widest steel pt of the gun........grip included...the P series is thinner... .900" across the board.......
The Sig is a large gun for a single stack .380...compare it to a BDA/CZ83...same size and they hold 2 times the bullets....but the alloy gun is lighter than either one......
Shoot well
The Sig is 1.200"
The Kahr is .900" at the slide and 1.06 at the widest steel pt of the gun........grip included...the P series is thinner... .900" across the board.......
The Sig is a large gun for a single stack .380...compare it to a BDA/CZ83...same size and they hold 2 times the bullets....but the alloy gun is lighter than either one......
Shoot well
Captain Bligh
Member
I think maybe we're both right. The Sig website lists the 232 "overall" thickness as 1.2 inches. Actually, that is the width of the 232 butt at its greatest thickness. I just took a micrometer to my 232 slide. The slide itself is roughly 7/8 of an inch in thickness.
That being said, I was surprised to see the dimension you listed for the Kahr because I do think of the Kahr as being chunky like the Glock. That is probably my perceptual error because of the Kahr slide's squarish profile while the Sig's is more rounded. I confess I have a bias against square, blocky slides.
RJ
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