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Help Please PPM not constant

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Hummbird, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. Hummbird

    Hummbird Member

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    im am loading some 9mm with my Lee perfect powder measure and i am using tite group powder and my goal is 4.0 gr. but when i finally get it set at 4.0 it will throw maybe 5-10 loads at 4.0 then it will either drop as low as 3.2 then it will go as high as 5.1 , what can i do. should i take it apart or what ? I am using a digital scale. Thanks
     
  2. Hummbird

    Hummbird Member

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    i found the main problem, i was stupid i didnt have the hopper turned on. but it still ranges of about +/- .05 is that ok .( im after 4.0 and now it goes from 3.7 to 4.5)
     
  3. PO2Hammer

    PO2Hammer Member

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    3.7 to 4.5 would be -.3/+.5 and would be out of my comfort zone. +/- .2 is my safety margin, and most powders including Titegroup would be -/+ .1.
     
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  4. splattergun

    splattergun Member

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    Be certain your technique is consistent. Rotate the handle completely top stop to bottom stop and back up, every time. Use the same timing, every time, If you pause at the bottom of the throw to allow powder to fall, pause every time. If you tap the measure, or don't tap it, do it or don't do it every time. Even with this, there will be some variation. +- .2 gn is acceptable. My PPM throws consistently +- .1 gn.

    Also, Lee's powder measures all need to be coated with graphite before you can count on accurate measures. Be sure to run at least a 1/2 pound of powder through the measure to coat every internal part with graphite.

    There is also probable variable in your digital scale. Get a set of check weights to calibrate it.
     
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  5. thomas15

    thomas15 Member

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    I personally love titegroup and use a lot of it for 9mm but keep in mind that it has a small range (start load to not to exceed). If there is any chance that your powder measure is not performing properly then either find a more forgiving powder or a better made powder measure.

    I'm assuming you are using light bullets... 115 or 124grain fmj?

    ^^^Very good advice. One of many reasons why it makes sense to buy a good quality powder scale is it really is a great idea to also own a set of check weights. Check weights cost more than some of the less expensive scales on the market. Most of us who have been doing this awhile have, in addition to check weights, several scales to check one against the other. Handloading is, like firearms in general, not an inexpensive hobby.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  6. WessonOil

    WessonOil Member

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    For what it's worth, some years ago my friend and I each bought digital scales in the $25.00 to $30.00 range.
    We both got erratic readings and when checked against my scales, the digital were incorrect.
    I load 4.0 grains Titegroup with Lee AutoDiscs also.
     
  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    No, that is too big of a swing, especially for Titegroup. 4.5 Grs instead of 4.0 Grs of Titegroup in 9MM is a huge increase.

    I am not familiar with the PPM measure, but many people have reported good success with them, and Titegroup should meter +/- .1, with the occasional .2. When loading at max I always set the measure to never throw more than that. When loading in light to medium range I just do an average.

    Which digital scale? Do you also have a balance beam scale to double check the digital one??

    Welcome to THR, I hope the members can help you get it sorted out.
     
  8. Dudedog

    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Welcome to THR.
    I haven't used mine with Titgroup but it does other small flake powder well.
    3.7 to 4.5 is to large a swing as Walkalong mentioned. I would think is should be closer to + or - .1 with Titegroup.
    You gave a range of + or - .05 but then said 3.7 to 4.5 with is -.3 +.5 if you are after 4 gr,
    .05 is fine .5 is to much.
    Do you have check weight for you scale? (in the range you are weighing?)
    These are some inexpensive ones but not bad. (the tweezers are crummy however.
    https://www.amazon.com/American-Wei...&qid=1502502495&sr=8-2&keywords=check+weights
    ~$12
     
  9. Hummbird

    Hummbird Member

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    my scale came with a calibration weight of 100 gram and when i check it , it checks good. i do have a new lee beam scale i have never used because i didn't think it would be as good as the digital scale, but i will set it up and test it out later today.. also i am loading 115 grain bullets. i bought this ppm from another guy he said it was new in the box and it did look like it and was in the box. i have noticed that the lever is a little sticky feeling sometime when i throw a charge, dont know if that means anything or not. thank you all for your help.
     
  10. drband

    drband Member

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    The Lee Safety Scale will be more accurate and consistent than your electronic scale. Be sure to zero it properly before weighing. The vernier scale is a little tricky to read, not hard but you should make sure you understand it.
     
  11. Hummbird

    Hummbird Member

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    thanks drband, are you talking about the 1/10 setting at the top of the scale is a little tricky, If you are i understand that its kinda hard to see the little marks on it, it dont help that i cant see as good as i once did.
     
  12. Dudedog

    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    You want some check weights that are close to what you are weighing.
    100grams =1543.2 grains, not a charge you would be weighing unless you were loading for some type of cannon:)
    The check weight set has various weights but for example 1 gram = 15.432 grains, 500mg = 7.71 grains, 200mg =3.08 grains.
    You want to check the scale to make sure it is correct at weights close to what you are using, probably somewhere between 3 and 15 grains for most pistol rounds.
     
  13. drband

    drband Member

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    Yes the 1/10th grain poise is the hard one to see. I usually set it to my desired charge and then use the lock button so it won't move from it. That way all I have to do is watch for over/under charges.

    Actually, I now use a vintage Bonanza Model C scale I picked up on eBay. Much easier to read the 1/10ths or change the setting.
     
  14. USSR

    USSR Member

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    A powder measure, being probably the most important piece of equipment for reloading, and you're using an all plastic piece that costs less than $25, and you find that it doesn't do the job? Seriously, save your money up and buy a tool that is up for the job. You get what you pay for.

    Don
     
  15. Hummbird

    Hummbird Member

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    i checked with beam scale and found the problem, it is throwing every time with in +.2 and most of the time right on the money. Now if it just didnt leak (lol) i guess i can put up with what little powder leaks. I want to Thank all You Guys again for the great help. Im sure i will be needing more help in the future. BTW I do have one more question is there any where to buy used or cheap 30/06 and 30/30 brass ? Or do i need to post this question in a diffrent forum ?
     
  16. drband

    drband Member

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    The beam scale is your best check!

    BTW, did you disassemble and clean out your powder throw drum and housing? Make sure o-ring is in place? I may have missed it.
     
  17. Hummbird

    Hummbird Member

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    will do drband , thank you
     
  18. bds
    • Contributing Member

    bds Member

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    My "cheap" metal/plastic/composite Pro Auto Disk with elastomer wiper will meter Alliant Sport Pistol with less than .05 gr variance weighed on .02 gr resolution digital scale verified by ASTM class 6 Ohaus check weights - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-alliant-sport-pistol.816514/page-5#post-10598431

    10 charges of Sport Pistol dropped from .30 disk hole ranged from 2.90 gr to 2.94 gr weighed on Gemini-20 digital scale with most of charges being 2.92 gr to 2.94 gr.

    This is VERY consistent powder charge variance not even my C-H 502 micrometer powder measure can meter. Yes, C-H powder measure that produced lower SD numbers than most powder measures - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/c-h-502-micrometer-powder-measure.761239/

    And with $1 mod, I can meter W231/HP-38 down to 2.0 gr and Bullseye down to 1.5 gr consistently with .1 gr variance. How many powder measures can do that? https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/working-diy-micro-auto-disk.741988/

    I sure am getting my money's worth with my "cheap" Lee powder measures.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  19. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    .05 is 5/100ths of a grain. 5.1 is 5 and 1/10th of a grain. .05 is good enough. However, consistency with a hand operated thrower is mostly about being consistent in operating the handle. Even a tiny extra thump will change what it throws. If the lever feels sticky it probably needs cleaning.
    100 grams equals 1543.24 grains.
     
  20. USSR

    USSR Member

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    bds,

    Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then.;)

    Don
     
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