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Help Registering New SBR build on ATF form 1

Discussion in 'Legal' started by senorlinc, Apr 14, 2008.

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  1. senorlinc

    senorlinc Member

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    been doing alot of reading and have even been to tthe BATF site. I am having a SBR built for me. I know i need it registered w ATF on Form 1 and have a copy of the form but no instructions on how to fill it out properly. i am a sane, lawabiding citizen who has no reason to be denied other than filling out the form incorrectly. is there a thread out there already (said i was sane, not necessarily good witht he 2 searches i attempted) or someone out there that can point out areas on the form that i can screw up? my SBR will only be used to plink at the range, is that a legitmate use to the feds??
     
  2. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    The manufacturer of the firearm will have to fill out the Form 1 before starting work on it. Once the manufacturer receives the approved Form 1 from the ATF the SBR can be built. The firearm can then be transferred to you on a Form 4.

    ATF Form 1 with instructions

    Some people put "collection", others "investment". "All Lawful Purposes" covers things nicely.
     
  3. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    You do not actually have to prove a need, so just put down "collection" or whatever.

    You won't be denied because you didn't give a 'good enough' reason.
     
  4. Kharn

    Kharn Member

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    If you are having it built using a reciever you do not already own, the builder fills out the Form1 and then you fill out a Form4 to transfer it to your person.

    If you already own the reciever, send in the Form1 and then you can temporarily transfer it to a shop to have them engrave your name, city and state along with cutting the barrel.

    Kharn
     
  5. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    How does that "temporary transfer" work? For example, say I have been approved to "build" an SBR on an AR-15 frame. The "buidling" occurs when I attach the <16" upper. If I have it engraved before I assemble the upper, then is it correct that I have not yet "built" the SBR and, thus, it is not yet an SBR? If so, then it would be much easer to give possession of it to someone else to engrave. Correct?
     
  6. Kharn

    Kharn Member

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    IIRC, you use Form 5320.20 for a temporary out-of-state transfer to an FFL. The engraving can occur after you have the Form1 in hand, but it's best to do the engraving first (in case the shop loses the reciever or they botch the job and ruin your reciever, the $200 tax is not refundable).

    The weapon is an SBR as soon as you recieve the approved form with the cancelled stamp, after which time you must complete the 5320.20.

    Sending the weapon out for engraving after submitting the Form1 but before you recieve it back from the ATF is not recommended, IIRC.

    Kharn
     
  7. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    So you are suggesting doing the engraving before sending in the Form 1?
     
  8. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    That's what I ALWAYS do with mine.

    They screw it up or lose the receiver you are out the $200.

    There's no law against engraving your name and town on a title 1 firearm so there's no harm done even if you change your mind about the SBR.
     
  9. senorlinc

    senorlinc Member

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    i read about the necessity of the engraving and will have that done. i am ordering the receiver separately from the other parts which i already own, the receiver will be delivered to me via my FFL. was going to send parts kit and receiver to builder...should i have the builder just order/provide the receiver for me, sounds alot easier, then the builder could do form 1 for new build and transfer to me via ffl/sot class III dealer on form 4???????? so corn-fused...
     
  10. Kharn

    Kharn Member

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    Henry Bowman:
    Correct, engrave before sending in the paperwork. Both because you need to do a 5320.20 to send an NFA weapon anywhere and the tax being nonrefundable if your reciever suffers any unfortunate incidents.

    Kharn
     
  11. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Well what exactly are you building? If it's an AR just do it yourself.
     
  12. senorlinc

    senorlinc Member

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    ah, i did for get to mention this...its an aks-74u...pretty much a short barrel version of an ak47...i have neither the tools or the know how to rivet a receiver and fit the barrel to it etc....i have a builder in mind, he said he could probably help decipher the paperwork but this is a pretty big deal so i want to make sure my behind is covered and all i's dotted/t's crossed properly
     
  13. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    With the engraving, what happens if you move, or you sell it to someone else? Does it need to be changed or leave it the way it is (wrong town, or wrong name/town if you sold it in the examples above)?
     
  14. Kharn

    Kharn Member

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    senorlinc:
    Buy the stripped reciever from your dealer, fill out the Form1, wait for its return and then send it off to a highly regarded AK smith for the barrel and engraving. If you have him do the work on a reciever he has in stock, you'll have to wait even longer for it to Form4 from the builder to your FFL and then another Form4 from your FFL to you (assuming the builder does not reside in your state).

    DoubleTapDrew:
    The engraving will always reflect the name, city and state listed on the original Form1 and shall never be altered. Future Form4s will list the original name, city and state as the manufacturer's info in the appropriate blocks.

    Kharn
     
  15. wdlsguy

    wdlsguy Member

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    A manufacturer (type 07 FFL / class 2 SOT) typically registers NFA firearms on a tax-free Form 2 after manufacturing the item.
     
  16. wdlsguy

    wdlsguy Member

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    I'm working on a Yugo Model 92 right now. I had the receiver engraved before sending in the Form 1's and associated paperwork. I'm waiting for the approved Form 1 to come back right now.

    According to this thread a 5320.20 isn't required if you are shipping your receiver and kit to a builder in another state.
     
  17. Chipperman

    Chipperman Member

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    The engraving refers to who made the SBR, and does not necessarily have anything to do with who owns the gun now.
     
  18. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    Ahhh, I see. It indicates the "manufacturer" of the SBR, not the owner.
    So I take it if you had a barrel shortened <16" on a gun without interchangable uppers the 'smith/SOT that did it would engrave (or have engraved) their info?
     
  19. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    If you filed a Form 1 then had a smith do the actual work YOU are still the manufacturer. The manufacturer is the one that is entering the thing in the NFA registry for the first time.

    You are "making" an NFA weapon where none existed before. Even though it was a Title 1 firearm, it is a "new" NFA weapon.
     
  20. jrfoxx

    jrfoxx Member

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    What a ridiculous pain all over some nonsense about a 12" bbl being magically more deadly than a 16" one, or a pistol with a 2" bbl and rifle stock attached being more deadly than the same gun with no stock. :banghead:
    Makes PREFECT, logical sense I don't understand why so many people are confused and it all has to constantly get explained. It all makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:
     
  21. Smellyamos

    Smellyamos Member

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    So to clarify, if I am building an AR-SBR from a stripped receiver. I am the manufacturer and I have to get my name and address engraved on the receiver and I list myself on the Form 1 and the Manufacturer?
     
  22. Kharn

    Kharn Member

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    Smellyamos:
    For the September 2007 version of the Form 1, block4A, list the name, city & state of the *original manufacturer* of the reciever as engraved on the lower (BFI, Windham ME, for example is how Bushmasters are marked).

    A Form 1 is an application to 'make and register' an NFA firearm, normally using a non-NFA firearm as a base. If you used an '80% reciever' (one you completed yourself in a work shop), you would list yourself as the manufacturer.

    Now that you've listed the original manufacturer on the form, you must also engrave the name, city and state of the *maker* on the reciever. This would be: John Doe, Nowheresville, PA (if doing it as an individual, or John Doe Trust, Nowheresville, PA if doing a trust)

    Kharn
     
  23. rfurtkamp

    rfurtkamp Member

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    Untrue, and one of the online myths.

    Read your Form 1's instructions:

    4 Withdrawal of Application. The application may be withdrawn prior to approval by submission of a written request from the maker. The NFA Branch will arrange for a refund of any tax paid.
    5 Cancellation of Approved Application. An approved application may be cancelled only if the firearms had not been made or modified. The maker must return the approved application with a written request for cancellation, citing the need and that the making of the firearm did not take place.


    Since the receiver/engraving was botched, and the weapon not made or modified into a NFA item - the weapon was not made. Get your $$$ back, file another F1.
     
  24. Kharn

    Kharn Member

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    rfurtkamp:
    True, you can apply for it to be refunded but it takes several months to get the cash back and then several months to go through the process again with a different lower. Also people tend to slap an SBR upper on their lower as soon as the stamp arrives and then get it engraved at a later date, at which point you do not qualify for a refund.

    Kharn
     
  25. rfurtkamp

    rfurtkamp Member

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    Still a world of difference from 'not refundable', which is what I heard time and time again on various boards over the years.
     
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