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Help w/ Argument Against Background Checks for Private Sale

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Uncle Richard, Jan 17, 2013.

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  1. bri

    bri Member

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    An improved background check system is the only proposal that I agree with in all of this craziness.

    You can't deny that this would help.
     
  2. radiotom

    radiotom Member

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    What would it help do?
     
  3. hogshead

    hogshead Member

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    This like reading a forum on Brady Campaign web page. So many of you are ready to fold and give them gun registration. Because that is exactly what it is and if you think otherwise your a fool. So keep on agreeing with the left right up till they come and take your last single shot rifle and register your slingshot. Its kinda interesting that Obama didn't even make it through his first term as president and started the gun grabbing and its kind of depressing to watch gun owners still getting sucked in by his lies.
     
  4. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Feel free to research the bill yourself. (See link below). Then I have excerpted one paragraph that cuts to the real intentions.

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=695620&highlight=background+check

    Text of H.R.137 Fix Gun Checks Act of 2013

    `(c) Responsibilities of Transferees Other Than Licensees-

    `(1) IN GENERAL- It shall be unlawful for an unlicensed transferee to receive a firearm from an unlicensed transferor, unless the firearm is transferred--
    `(A)(i) through a licensed dealer under subsection (d);
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
  5. wooly bugger

    wooly bugger Member

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    Why can't they make the NICS system available to the public for free? And why can't they attach a law that NICS records must be destroyed after a certain period? It would be a negligible inconvenience and let's face it, it would prevent some ineligible individuals from buying. I don't think there would be vigilante government employees secretly keeping the records against the law. It would be to no one's benefit.
     
  6. bri

    bri Member

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    Currently, in a private sale, how would you determine if the buyer was a felon or mentally unfit to own a firearm?
     
  7. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    I know who to whom I'm selling and exercise good judgment. Ever heard of it?
     
  8. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Because what they really want is the information on the #4473 form in a National Database; and the statute that specified background checks was limited to sales made by licensed dealers that were involved in interstate commerce. They have unquestioned power under the Constitution to regulate interstate commerce, but not intrastate commerce, which by default is left to the states. Now they are looking to see what they might be able to get away with.

    What they eventually want is a database with the names of all the gun owners, and a list of all the guns they own.
     
  9. AlexanderA

    AlexanderA Member

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    Background checks do not equate with gun registration, if no records are kept of the guns being transferred. This would especially be true if the checks did not involve FFL's. As a seller, you should be able to call a toll-free number (or go to a Web site), enter the identifying information of the buyer, and get an instant "yes" or "no" answer. If the answer is no, then the seller and buyer can go to an FFL (or a local police agency) and get a more extensive check done.

    I frankly don't understand the paranoia that a simple idea like this seems to engender. When I've sold guns, I've either been an FFL, or gone through FFL's. Accessing NICS as a private individual would be a big convenience for me.
     
  10. Queen_of_Thunder

    Queen_of_Thunder member

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    The laws governing the sale of a firearm should be told go the news folks. If I sale a gun to a felon I go to jail.
     
  11. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    You still don't get it... :banghead:

    What YOU want is not what THEY want, and they are the ones writing the bills.

    If that's what you want to do it's your business, but again they are not likely to change the bill to reflect what you want. WHAT THEY WANT IS WHAT THEY WANT!
     
  12. ktmmudd

    ktmmudd Member

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    Ever heard of a poll tax? This is another case of the government charging a fee to exercise a right. How much uproar would ensue if you had to pay a fee to express an opinion, or to read a book or attend church? Why is it OK for 2nd amendment rights?
     
  13. justice06rr

    justice06rr Member

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    This may actually make some sense. Voluntary would be great, but with BO's plan, i'm sure they will push for Mandatory checks for everyone.

    The downsides to the background checks is added time, cost, and hassle for buyers and sellers everywhere.

    The NICS system would have to be heavily upgraded to handle this traffic, and also monitored that people are not using fake or inaccurate info. As we all know, if you mistakenly put even one wrong answer to a 4473 like your birthday or country of birth, you get a long delay. Multiply that times millions of private sellers checking the NICS, and you got hours and days of delay.
     
  14. REDMASTA

    REDMASTA Member

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    I dont personally know enough people who are gun enthusiasts to sell my firearms too so in the past ive listed them online using the classified section on a couple forums. They were all shipped to an ffl which I confirmed to be legit using the atf ez check.

    Even if someone local wanted to buy id make them go through an ffl as I have no idea who they are. If it was a close friend or family, sure that would be different but unfortunately thats not always an option.
     
  15. nazshooter

    nazshooter Member

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    Nowhere does the Constitution require the Federal government to regulate who may or may not buy a gun, in fact they are explicitly restricted from doing so by the 2a.



    The due process clause prevents the government from depriving you of life, liberty, or property without due process. You'll notice, however that there is no such wording in the 2a, so they may not deny those rights even with due process.



    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
     
  16. nazshooter

    nazshooter Member

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    The government already has a long history of keeping records they have no business keeping and using them to harass inconvenient people and groups. Remember too that these are the same folks that sold thousands of weapons to the Mexican cartels and then tried to use the results as evidence that we need additional restrictions on our rights.

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
     
  17. deadin

    deadin Member

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    Anything in the proposals about the Government calling in the 4473's?
    Or will they stay with the FFL like they do now?
     
  18. barnbwt

    barnbwt Member

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    Seems like if we responsible gun owners would simply refuse to sell to shady guys we don't know well, this whole deal becomes a complete non-issue. And if we're afraid that irresponsible people will act irresponsibly, well, no law will prevent that anyway. (I'm still waiting to see a study tracking a couple thousand illegally used firearms used in random crimes all over the country, to see how many were ever legally owned, let alone improperly transferred by a regular citizen to a prohibited person (straw purchases don't count as "legal possession" by the buyer either))

    The government has no Constitutional basis for pre-empting illegal behavior of its citizens by restricting their enumerated rights. The Constitution only requires that illegal behavior be prosecuted according to laws applied equally to all citizens, and if found deserving of punishment, penalizing them, removing them from society, or curtailing their rights.

    TCB
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
  19. Uncle Richard

    Uncle Richard Member

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    So far Kiln has the strongest argument in my opinion.

    It boils down to legislation doesn't stop evil.
     
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