Help with 178/180g .308 with VARGET

[Peakbagger46]

Lately I’ve been shooting 168g SMK reloads out of my .308 bolt gun at ranges of 500-700 yards. That load has been doing pretty well, but it’s time to step up to a higher BC.

I want to try Hornady 178g ELD-X, mainly for target approaching 1,000 yards, but also for some limited use on pronghorn and possibly mule deer. I want to start with Varget as I have a decent supply and like the temperature stability.

I got ahold of a Hornady book. They are listening a max charge of 42.4g of Varget for an anemic 2,450fps. Hogdon is publishing a max load of 45g (compressed) of Varget for a velocity of 2,661fps, BUT the bullet listed is a 180g Speer SP.

I try and not exceed published data, but the difference between the Hogdon and Hornady data is huge. Any advice on where I should try and work up to with this combo? Not looking for a specific number per say, but just some general ideas.

 

[LoonWulf]

The 180 Speer bullets are about 1/4" shorter than the eldx, and horndays data seems to run light in quite a few calibers. Quickloads predictions match what Hodgons say for velocity and predict very close to max pressure (in fact over for the 175 sierra).
Cross referencing with Noslers data for their 175-180s they list 43.5 as max for just under 2600 from a 24" barrel. Quickloads also agrees with this number and suggests the loads in the 55Kpsi range (if we correct water capacity to match noslers with a seated bullet)
Were it me, I would start at 41 or 42, and go up till i got to 2600ish, watching for pressure signs the whole way.


https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/hornady-178-eld-x-load-data-for-308.819848/page-2

Theres some good info in that thread......Id read it a while back, but couldnt remember what it was called took me a while to find it.

 

[z7]

I believe brass makes a significant difference for the 308 win and good loads. The 175 SMK accuracy node for Lapua brass is often around 43.5 grains.

For win brass as high as 45g

My 178eldm load uses 44g of Varget in win brass, no pressure signs, easy bolt lift and 2675 out of a 24” barrel. Different brass will mean less powder usually

 

[Peakbagger46]

I am using Lapua brass. My current load is 44.5g reloader 15 and cci 200 primers with the 168gSMK.

 

[Peakbagger46]

Thank you loonwolf, that thread you posted was extremely helpful!

 

[Kaldor]

42.3gr of Varget, LC case, CCI 200 primer with the 178 ELD-X for me produces consistent 1/2" 3 shot groups. I tested as high as 43gr in LC cases. No pressure issues at 43gr, easy bolt lift from Savage Model 10 with 26" Criterion 10 twist barrel.

You can probably jump that up at least a grain in a commercial case, but I doubt you will hit best accuracy with a max charge with the ELD's. Ive shot some 73gr ELDs in 223 and I was well below max load of 8208 for best accuracy. As always, YMMV, just work it up in your rifle.

 

[Peakbagger46]

42.3gr of Varget, LC case, CCI 200 primer with the 178 ELD-X for me produces consistent 1/2" 3 shot groups. I tested as high as 43gr in LC cases. No pressure issues at 43gr, easy bolt lift from Savage Model 10 with 26" Criterion 10 twist barrel.

You can probably jump that up at least a grain in a commercial case, but I doubt you will hit best accuracy with a max charge with the ELD's. Ive shot some 73gr ELDs in 223 and I was well below max load of 8208 for best accuracy. As always, YMMV, just work it up in your rifle.

Thanks for sharing that. Did you chrono those loads?

 

[Nature Boy]

I have a running thread on my journey toward finding the best mid/long range load for my .308 here:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/308-long-range-load-development-results.822638/

I've not had much luck with the 178 VLDs but I've found some good loads with 180g SMKs and 185 Bergers using Varget and H4895.

Note of caution: most of my loads are over published max but I worked up to them. Make sure you do as well. Also, bullet berring surface + choice of powder seem to have as much to do with pressure as does the increase in bullet weight. In other words, I'd see pressure signs earlier in the SMKs with their longer bearing surface then I would with the 185 Berger, especially when using varget.

I'm finding a common theme in my development of these 180g bullets. ~42.5 is the sweet spot

 

[joed]

I never had a lick of luck with the 168 Sierra or Nosler .308 Match bullets past 600 yards. The 185 Bergers on the other hand work for me past 600 but I haven't tried 1k yet.

 

[Kaldor]

Thanks for sharing that. Did you chrono those loads?

I did not. I work down from max load for best accuracy is how I do it. Some guys think Im crazy, but it works for me. I take 3 shot groups with .5gr jumps, pick out the best of the lot, fine tune a little, shoot confirmation loads and call it a day. I do plan on buying a chrono, but its just not something that is not a priority for me right now.

 

[Peakbagger46]

I have a running thread on my journey toward finding the best mid/long range load for my .308 here:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/308-long-range-load-development-results.822638/

I've not had much luck with the 178 VLDs but I've found some good loads with 180g SMKs and 185 Bergers using Varget and H4895.

Note of caution: most of my loads are over published max but I worked up to them. Make sure you do as well. Also, bullet berring surface + choice of powder seem to have as much to do with pressure as does the increase in bullet weight. In other words, I'd see pressure signs earlier in the SMKs with their longer bearing surface then I would with the 185 Berger, especially when using varget.

I'm finding a common theme in my development of these 180g bullets. ~42.5 is the sweet spot

I’ve been following your thread, very nice work up. I would be looking at the MatchKings again since the 168 flies well in my rifle, but I’m hoping to get lucky with the ELDX since I can use that bullet on game.

 

[Kaldor]

I’ve been following your thread, very nice work up. I would be looking at the MatchKings again since the 168 flies well in my rifle, but I’m hoping to get lucky with the ELDX since I can use that bullet on game.

Also to add on to what Nature Boy said about bearing surfaces. The ELDX bullets have extremely short bearing surfaces, as in probably shorter than a 168 SMK. I actually have not looked at it that in depth on a 308, but I know that the 73gr ELDs have a shorter bearing surface than Hornady 68 BTHPs, and Sierra 69gr SMKs and TMKs. This does allow you to push them harder than you think you would be able to, which goes against conventional wisdom when bullet weight goes up, powder charge goes down. I just havent had enough time to thoroughly test these 178s as I was setting my reloads up for deer last fall, and I hit my sweet spot at 42.3gr. There may be another node above that, but Im limited by the LC cases for capacity so I really cant go much higher on powder charge. Ive tested as high as 43gr, which in a LC case is on the high end. In a commercial case, you might be able to safely go 45gr as max as Hodgdon suggests.

And yes @Nature Boy thread for his 308 loading is pretty dang good.

 

[z7]

I went as high as 45g of varget with the 178 ELD and didn't have any obvious pressure sings but I had a small amount of soot around the edges of a few CCI 200 primers. I tried out the lighter load and it shoots really well, so I just went with the lower load.

I will say that I my 175 SMK's touch the lands at 2.79" oal. the 178 ELDM touch the lands at 2.84", so length of bullet/ bearing surface/ogive shape is quite different.

I have scored consistent hits out to 1K with the 178 ELDM and was able to hit a 5" disk at 600 yds in a december match. I think the ELDX should do well, the ELDM flies great for me.

 

[Peakbagger46]

Think I am going to load up 5 loads each in .5gr increments with a top out of 44.0g to start. I’ll post the results but it may be a couple weeks before I can make it out to shoot again.

 

[Peakbagger46]

Here was my first attempt at 600y last weekend with the 168g SMK. Dialed up and then held .5 mil for wind. 700 wasn’t as pretty but did keep 7 out of 8 on the silhouette.