Help with firearms ID: Walter p-38?

[flytyer232]

Hello,
i was at a live auction recently, and they had an "9mm pocket pistol" up for auction. I picked this guy up for $170 out the door, and suspect it is a walter p-38. It appears as some jack-wad scrubbed the markings when it was refinished. I have never owned a p-38, but i think it is one. Could someone please help me ID this firearm? The only markings visable on the outside is what i think the serial number is "9816k". If it is a p-38, does anyone if this was WWII production? That would be interesting if it was....

the gun didn't come with a magazine, so i would like to know what i can buy that would work. I am thinking p-38 magazine off Ebay

My interest in this firearms is as a range toy, so i am not looking to restore. However, i may do a good rust blue...

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

IMG_6020

• flytyer232
• Jun 25, 2018

IMG_6019

• flytyer232
• Jun 25, 2018

IMG_6017

• flytyer232
• Jun 25, 2018

IMG_6016

• flytyer232
• Jun 25, 2018

 

[herrwalther]

I don't think the "9816k" is the serial number. On the P-38s, the SN was above the trigger guard where the frame meets. Where yours has a "15K" or "45K" can't really tell.

The K is telling. According to this chart I found, they only used the K date code on P-38s produced in 1942, 43, and 44.

http://pistole38.nl.server3.starthosting.nl/tech/P38ProductionDates.pdf

 

[bannockburn]

Hi Mike! Well it's definitely a P38 but I'm thinking possibly late war or even post war production. I would suggest having a gunsmith look over the pistol before you use it as some late war guns were assembled with sub-standard parts made from sub-standard metal as the Allied bombing took it's toll on German weapons manufacturing.

 

[kBob]

When I was stationed across the river in Neu Ulm the local police would on occasion come across what they called a "Lunch Box" gun or one guy called a "Johnny Cash" gun.

These guns were made up of mostly un marked parts stolen from the factory by workers and assembled at home for personal use or sale. Some were a mish mash of new and old parts.

In Germany the barrel used to be the controlled part.

Such a gun would have missed a number of QC inspections.

GIs have long been known to "import" stuff in Duffle bags that made it past US Customs..

Something to think about anyway.

-kBob

 

[flytyer232]

Very interesting. So, i should first take the gun apart and see if there is any proof marks, or anything else? I can do that tonight, and post the results.

I will also have a local gunsmith i have worked with before take a look at it, he said he can do an inspection for $30, but needs a magazine for test fire.

two questions:
1. Does the gun look refinished (is this the original finish on the gun)?

2. For magazines, I should be able to buy a new production p38 magazine? I am thinking about buying this magazine:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Or...r0AAOSwX61ZFzv3:sc:USPSFirstClass!55321!US!-1

Thanks,
Mike

 

[flytyer232]

I don't think the "9816k" is the serial number. On the P-38s, the SN was above the trigger guard where the frame meets. Where yours has a "15K" or "45K" can't really tell.

The K is telling. According to this chart I found, they only used the K date code on P-38s produced in 1942, 43, and 44.

http://pistole38.nl.server3.starthosting.nl/tech/P38ProductionDates.pdf

Thank you for this, it is very interesting!!! Would there be any other marks, inside of the gun, that would be able to help with identification?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Either a "lunch box", or a " Grey Ghost", you can google all the info you need about them.

Mec Gar makes excellent P38/P1 replacement magazines if you have any trouble locating a factory replacement.

 

[flytyer232]

Either a "lunch box", or a " Grey Ghost", you can google all the info you need about them.

Mec Gar makes excellent P38/P1 replacement magazines if you have any trouble locating a factory replacement.

Thanks, i will look into Mec Gar magazines
What around, would this gun be worth?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Thanks, i will look into Mec Gar magazines
What around, would this gun be worth?

IMO, if a gunsmith is willing to pronounce it safe to shoot, in the $400 range- mainly as a historical oddity. Really nice wartime P38s are in the $6-800 range around here, with clean postwar P1 pistols going for $4-500.

Wartime P38s, even good quality ones, are a bit fragile (prone to slide cracks), and should only be subjected to moderate quantities of JHP range ammo. No +P for sure!

If the action is too sloppy or the metallurgy suspect, then its a neat conversation piece/doorstop, lol, worth maybe $150-200.

 

[Rudolph31]

Do not trust the Hammer Drop Safety on your P.38. It works by trapping the firing pin and tripping the sear, but if the tab on the pin breaks off, engaging the safety can empty the mag in full auto.

 

[flytyer232]

IMO, if a gunsmith is willing to pronounce it safe to shoot, in the $400 range- mainly as a historical oddity. Really nice wartime P38s are in the $6-800 range around here, with clean postwar P1 pistols going for $4-500.

Wartime P38s, even good quality ones, are a bit fragile (prone to slide cracks), and should only be subjected to moderate quantities of JHP range ammo. No +P for sure!

If the action is too sloppy or the metallurgy suspect, then its a neat conversation piece/doorstop, lol, worth maybe $150-200.

I was planning on shooting lighter cast bullet loads, since i reload. I can tune the reloads to barely cycle the slide, so i hopefully don't batter the slide, or crack it...

 

[flytyer232]

Do not trust the Hammer Drop Safety on your P.38. It works by trapping the firing pin and tripping the sear, but if the tab on the pin breaks off, engaging the safety can empty the mag in full auto.

You mean occasional full auto isn't a design feature? Good information, defiantly won't be carrying this gun, or even holstering it....

 

[Rudolph31]

I put my finger between the hammer and pin when I decock my P.38. The last permutation of this gun, the P5, has a hole in the hammer that covers the pin during decocking; pulling the trigger moves the firing pin in line with the striking surface. I trust my P5.

 

[Waveski]

Post war P.38 - aka P1- magazines are usable in any P.38 and are readily available on many websites. Search and ye shall find.

Winchester White Box 9mm is commonly accepted as a good safe P38 / P1 ammunition.

If the gun were mine I would strip it and closely examine it for any obvious flaws or faults. If all appears normal I'd shoot the darn thing. That slide , which was not designed or manufactures with a real tight tolerance , has been around for a while ; I doubt that it is going to fail on you. After thousands of rounds , then maybe... I shoot my WWII P.38 and my WWII Femaru , as well as my WWI Luger. Oh - and a couple of S&W revolvers which are 100+ years old. Still have all my digits.

You may find that the P.38 is a bit on the loud side for a 9mm. You will also find that the ejection function of that pistol is , well , different. Let us know how it goes.

 

[H&R Glock]

You got a bargain for $170. New magazines are about $20 plus shipping. Looks like it would be a good shooter.

 

[flytyer232]

i took the gun apart, and found a number of interesting markings. It appears to be german/nazi proof marks. So, would that mean this gun in more likely to be a grey ghost gun, and not a lunch box gun?

I dropped the gun off at the gun smith this morning, and he said at first glace it looks good, but he is going to test the steel for hardness and fatigue.

IMG_6049

• flytyer232
• Jun 27, 2018

IMG_6048

• flytyer232
• Jun 27, 2018

IMG_6047

• flytyer232
• Jun 27, 2018

IMG_6043

• flytyer232
• Jun 27, 2018

IMG_6043

• flytyer232
• Jun 27, 2018

IMG_6041

• flytyer232
• Jun 27, 2018

IMG_6039

• flytyer232
• Jun 27, 2018

IMG_6038

• flytyer232
• Jun 27, 2018

IMG_6051

• flytyer232
• Jun 27, 2018

 

[bannockburn]

flytyer232

Try googling "P38 SVW45" for more information on how some post-war P38s were built and marked using leftover wartime parts. The SVW P38s were manufactured by the French in the Mauser factory after the war.

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't know the minutae of German gun production, but can say that the US legal serial number is 45K because that is what is on the receiver at the usual location. 9816K is the serial number of the gun the barrel came off of. In normal practice, the slide would have been numbered and marked for the manufacturer and year, so you have either a blank slide or a scrubbed slide.

 

[Waveski]

http://p38forum.com/forums/index.php

These guys can tell you anything you could possibly want to know about your (lunch box-ish) P.38.

 

[FL-NC]

Very cool.

 

[Steveo_1704]

that's a nice find, i'd have bought it for that price also.

 

[someguy2800]

Great find! If I was there you would have been bidding against me.

 

[bannockburn]

flytyer232

Just noticed by way of another thread (thanks to Speedo66), that AIM Surplus has surplus Walther P38/P1 mags in stock for $19.95. Thought you might like to know!

 

[flytyer232]

Update: I got the gun back from the gunsmith. He said it was functionally okay to shoot, and did confirm that it was a late war Nazi gun. He suspects it was probably refinished (cold blued) later on. He checked the barrel, and slide for hardness, which he said was okay. He did say the springs should be replaced, so i had him take care of that.

The gun smith did warn that this shouldn't be a range to, instead maybe be taken out a couple of times a year, and shot lightly. This is due to the frame cracking issues that is common with this vintage of P38.

With the inspection and the springs replacement, i was out the door for $120, so the price of the gun has gone up. However, the gun smith did give me a certificate, saying it had been inspected, and the value of the gun (for insurance reasons), which he said was $700 (i think he added a little cushion to the value).

I will let you guys know how shooting goes, but first i need to cast up some 9mm projectiles, so it may be a couple of weeks.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Waveski]

Again , Winchester White Box is a commonly used and perfectly acceptable ammo for that gun.

Couple times per year and shot lightly? It was built to shoot. It's not at all collectable ; what you have is a P.38 shooter.

Different people are wired different , I guess. When I get something interesting like that I just can't wait to go out and shoot it - same day if at all possible. Rain , cold , wind , I don't care. Oh well , to each his own.