HELP!!!!

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Need to know what target you are using as most handgun appropriate targets are designed for 50ft and further. Here are some possible reasons.

Target designed to be shot at longer distance being shot at close range, too big an aim point, black "swallowing" the sights. "Aim large shoot large, aim small shoot small."

Pistol barrel badly fouled with lead or copper.

Poor bullet to bore size or poor quality bullet, ie. cast with voids, inconsistent weight.
 
Get some good jacketed factory ammo in both 38 and 357 mag and clean out the barrel with a solvent made to remove lead and copper.

If the gun still shoots inaccurate, then it's the gun. If it shoots right, then it's your ammo. If your ammo is the problem, then it's probably the bullets.
 
The rifle gives consistent groupings with the same powder dosage and bullet weight in SWC. Both flavor of ball were swaged with the same stock lead. Hubby is taking the ball over to my brother's house to use a micrometer on them. Since Dad is there he should be back in a couple of hours.

Cartridge height was as close to the same as the tools available allowed. In a few minutes I'm going to find my uncle's check weights and check the scale but volume was the same as far as the eye could see.
 
If I'm reading this right, you are shooting 4-6 inch groups at 30 yards with a benched rifle. If that is right, then there is something very wrong that probably goes beyond your ammo.

Are you using hard cast lead or just plain lead? If it's plain lead, then your barrel is likely heavily leaded and needs cleaning.
 
Are your bullets lubricated? From your other post as I recall you swaged them to size. Are they lubricated? Lube makes a difference.

Do your bullets fit your particular firearm? Bore diameters vary. Slug your barrel. This means pounding a lead bullet through your barrel with a mallet and dowel and then measuring the diameter of the bullet after it has passed through the barrel with a micrometer. You can get a micrometer for about $25 and it measures to 1/1000 inch. If your bullets as they sit in your cartridges are not a skosh bigger than the bullet that has passed down your barrel, crappy accuracy will happen.

I have not used Bullseye powder. I use black powder and Hodgdon's Titegroup. I don't know if your 3.2 grains of Bullseye is one of those classic loads. But every gun is a snowflake, an individual. Frequently powder charges near the maximum group more tightly. Experiment.

And make sure the gun is clean and the bullets are lubricated.
 
Officers'Wife said:
The rifle gives consistent groupings with the same powder dosage and bullet weight in SWC....

Cartridge height was as close to the same as the tools available allowed.
Click to expand...

If by "cartridge height" you mean overall length (oal) then the problem may be you are seating the bullet incorrectly. The correct seating depth/oal may well not be the same for the different bullet styles.

If they are seated reasonably correctly then try adjusting powder charge. Just because the bullets weigh the same does not mean they'll shoot the same. Assuming they are seated correctly, then your rifle doesn't like the load. At all.
 
I have a Marlin 1894 C rifle which will shoot .38 spl or .357 mag. .38 spl are poor on accuracy. .357 mag hot loads are accurate but you might need JHP's and push them fast. At least that's what i found in mine.
 
All of my and my wife's Marlin 1894C rifles will shoot small little groups at 30 yards with .38 Special, but most of ours are with 125 grain cast bullets over 3.4 grains of Bullseye, which is our standard SASS load for these rifles. If they won't group into an inch at 30 yards from a rest, then I'd think they're the wrong diameter for the bore. I size mine .358" and don't have a leading problem at all, using Magma hard lubes.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
wankerjake said:
If by "cartridge height" you mean overall length (oal) then the problem may be you are seating the bullet incorrectly. The correct seating depth/oal may well not be the same for the different bullet styles.

If they are seated reasonably correctly then try adjusting powder charge. Just because the bullets weigh the same does not mean they'll shoot the same. Assuming they are seated correctly, then your rifle doesn't like the load. At all.
Click to expand...

That's what my brother told me as well, the ball wasn't far enough in the case. He ran 8 rounds with the same load and ball, the grouping was about a 1/2 inch(standing not bench). I'm going to have to get a bumper sticker for my car- Tulala on board. :(

(Tulala = foolish woman)
 
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lol, being a little too hard on your self there. It's just a learning experience.
 
Walkalong said:
lol, being a little too hard on your self there. It's just a learning experience.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that I am "competing" with my brother who has been reloading for almost 20 years. If I didn't feel foolish at it there would be something wrong! This is just my sense of humor kicking in, if you can't laugh at yourself for your mistakes where is the sense of making them?
 
If I understand these are soft cold swaged bullets. If this is the case, while they may shoot great from a revolver in these light loads, the bullet is probably too soft for the tighter rifling and added velocity of being fired from a rifle. First step is to open the action and examine the bore for lead, and I'm guessing its got a lot of it. Personally, I would bypass cold swaged lead bullets in the carbine altogether and work with hardcast of BRN 18 or jacketed which will alllow you to load from mid range .38 on up to .357 mag.
 
"Tulala on board" - You do have a sense of humor. :D

While I love to make my favorite oatmeal raisin cookies, no matter how hard I try my daughter's cookies come out better than mine.

To my daughter's delight she tells me, "Dad, I think you are being too hard on the cookie dough." :eek:

"I have not given up on baking and I shall prevail - Wah ha ha ha!!!" says me as I munch on her cookies while my wife is laughing in tears. :D
(FYI, my cookies are better than my wife's BUT her steaks are better than mine YET my BBQ tri-tip is better than hers and my Spaghetti sauce is way better ;):D)

Have no fear, as you seem to excel in baking which is more intricate and exact science of chemistry. In comparison, reloading requires less precise chemistry. Hang in there and you will end up producing accurate match grade ammunition in time.
 
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TimSr said:
If I understand these are soft cold swaged bullets. If this is the case, while they may shoot great from a revolver in these light loads, the bullet is probably too soft for the tighter rifling and added velocity of being fired from a rifle. First step is to open the action and examine the bore for lead, and I'm guessing its got a lot of it. Personally, I would bypass cold swaged lead bullets in the carbine altogether and work with hardcast of BRN 18 or jacketed which will alllow you to load from mid range .38 on up to .357 mag.
Click to expand...
For the time being cold swaged ball is all that is within my risk tolerance. While hubby would enjoy casting, I would be worried about my contact to the lead particulates on his clothing. Maybe when I'm 50 casting will be an option, but not right now.
 
bds said:
"Tulala on board" - You do have a sense of humor. :D

While I love to make my favorite oatmeal raisin cookies, no matter how hard I try my daughter's cookies come out better than mine.

To my daughter's delight she tells me, "Dad, I think you are being too hard on the cookie dough." :eek:

"I have not given up on baking and I shall prevail - Wah ha ha ha!!!" says me as I munch on her cookies while my wife is laughing in tears. :D
(FYI, my cookies are better than my wife's BUT her steaks are better than mine YET my BBQ tri-tip is better than hers and my Spaghetti sauce is way better ;):D)

Have no fear, as you seem to excel in baking which is more intricate and exact science of chemistry. In comparison, reloading requires less precise chemistry. Hang in there and you will end up producing accurate match grade ammunition in time.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind I have the ghosts of 2 grandmothers and 5 great-grandmothers looking over my shoulder when I cook. All I have for reloading is my brother and I don't let him in the house when I working. (For the wags out there I was adopted by my mother's cousin so I do have 3 grandmothers and 5 great grandmothers.) Keep in mind I have recipes dating back a couple centuries or so from three different continents. Each recipe prized and each I must face the authors after Judgment Day.

Just for the nit picking side of me- reloading would be more applied physics than chemistry. The basic formula is still F = MA. There is no consideration to the nitrogen bond of the powder just the pressure generated by it's detonation. The concern is the stability of the ball in flight and the resistance of it's surface against the lands of the barrel, not it's lattice structure.
 
F=ma but there are reloading variables that affect initial chamber pressure build and later peak chamber pressure which determine muzzle velocity variation that influences accuracy.

To achieve reloading consistency we must understand the mechanics of physics but reloading components involved must be made consistent for more consistent powder ignition and burn to occur which is chemistry.

With lead bullets, many things are happening when the primer flash ignites the powder charge and Glen Fryxell details the process in his ebook - www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_5_Lubrication.htm
 
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Let me see, now...
Roundnose wild, semiwadcutters "consistent."
Will the SWCs feed from the tube magazine? If so, I know what I would do. And it would not include trying to force the RN to shoot well.
 
bds said:
F=ma but there are reloading variables that affect initial chamber pressure build and later peak chamber pressure which determine muzzle velocity variation that influences accuracy.

To achieve reloading consistency we must understand the mechanics of physics but reloading components involved must be made consistent for more consistent powder ignition and burn to occur which is chemistry.

With lead bullets, many things are happening when the primer flash ignites the powder charge and Glen Fryxell details the process in his free ebook chapters - www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
Click to expand...

Again, all these considerations fall under physics. (With the possible exception of the melting point of lead and the alloys.) My brother has given me an address where I can buy what he calls "gas checks" and I would call half jackets. Hopefully with the copper base they dynamic will improve. I have traded the Bullseye to my brother for Unique which he tells me will serve better in the rifle. (Actually he needs the Bullseye for one of his pet pistol loads. That stuff is hard to find!) A friend of mine found me a precision digital scale that can be programmed to register in grains at the Purdue surplus outlet for $30. (It will also be useful for soil testing.) I've also been reading the manual I was left which is kind of a "reloading for dummies" sort of thing.

I had a greybeard suggest a load using a powder called 2400 he claims might serve me better in the 18 1/2 in barrel of the rifle. While I'm tempted to try it I think I'll wait until I've gotten a bit more experience.
 
Instead of trying to create a new recipe with different powders you are not familiar with, it may help to ask for recipes that have been proven by other reloaders. ;)

Many new members ask "What have worked well for you?" and list components

While I don't mind reinventing the wheel, it is better to go with the "round design" that has worked for many instead of trying different polygons.
 
Post a pic of the bullets your using please , swaged are usually lubed with a wax/mica compound & probably your running out of lube .

A lot of leading at the muzzle end of the bore ??, sure sign of more lube needed.

My buddy shoots SASS & we cast a Dick Dastardly snakebite greasewagon

http://www.biglube.com/BulletMolds.aspx?ItemID=ee788c75-7068-4a70-a6f0-6d4ee38b0030

bullet , it`s made to load in 38spc. casing but giving 357 mag over all length(AOL) with a huge lube groove for using Holy Black, goes thru his little lever gun like greased owl snot!!

We didn't ever group the loads but 50yd plate ringing wasn't hard to do at all.

As far as lead exposure goes ,you`re exposed more while shooting (lead or jacketed) loads than when casting given you follow simple sensible rules.
 
Jim Watson said:
Let me see, now...
Roundnose wild, semiwadcutters "consistent."
Will the SWCs feed from the tube magazine? If so, I know what I would do. And it would not include trying to force the RN to shoot well.
Click to expand...
I won't say they feed well but they do feed. Hubby had some problems with them "catching" but he has a heavier hand and tries to cycle faster than I do. Since the problem was my inexperience rather than the ball it's something of a moot point.
 
My Remington 700 30-06 is capable of sub MOA accuracy. As long as I use IMR4350 and Hornady bullets I can shoot under 1" all day long. Hornady 180 grain Interlock SP bullets over IMR4350 has been my standard load since about 1964.

Prior to a 2000 Caribou hunt, I felt I needed a "better" load so I bought Speer 180 grain Grand Slam bullets. At 50 yards I was getting 10" "groups". It looked more like a shotgun pattern. I tried several powders and finally found WW760 got me back to sub MOA I was used to.

After that I just gave up on the Grand Slam bullets for the simple reason if they were that hard to get acceptable accuracy, I wasn't interested. It was just too easy with IMR4350 and Hornady bullets.

Sometimes you just have to rethink the whole situation and try other powder and bullet combinations. I still have 25 of those Grand Slams and if I can find some WW760 I might load them. But at my age, I'm not holding my breath.

For expert help, and lots of it, for lead/lead alloy bullets go here:http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?8-Cast-Boolits&

Be aware, to these folks (and I'm one of them), a "bullet" is a copper clad projectile (some refer to the copper jacket as a condom) and lead/lead alloy projectiles are "boolits". From the site, "A place for the discussion of our favorite pb projectiles. Boolits= as God laid it into the soil,,grand old Galena, The Silver Stream graciously hand poured into molds for our consumption. . . Bullets= Machine made utilizing Full Length Gas Checks as to provide projectiles for the masses."

These are dedicated casters and lead/lead alloy shooters.

With respect to gas checks, if your chosen bullet is not designed to hold a gas check, it's use is discouraged. Essentially using a gas check without a mount point on the bullet base, you're just launching loose bits of copper down your bore. This is a gas check: https://www.bing.com/images/search?...617&thid=JN.+eAfIo5sQN2lbHAr2yU51w&ajaxhist=0

Not all gas checks are crimp on. Some are friction fit.
 
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