Henry 44 mag Big Boy accuracy issue, need help.

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Typetwelve, Mar 2, 2021.

  1. Typetwelve

    Typetwelve Member

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    I've had my Henry about 11 months now, I've loaded up 240g Roze, XTPs, and 250g Sierra Tourny Master projectiles in it with various powders (IMR4227, Unique, H110, VV 105, Acc No7, 2400).

    Time, and time, and time again...I get a flyer out of 5 round groups. It's predictable at this point. Always high and slightly to L. Here's 3 different groups taken at different times:

    NRFt2Bs.jpg
    gQvahG0.jpg

    The bottom one was 2 5-shot groups I just did on top of each other last Sat...both of the flyers were darn near on top of each other, high and to the L.

    For the life of me, I cannot figure this one out.
     
  2. Roknstevo

    Roknstevo Member

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    Don’t flinch.
     
  3. Hartkopf

    Hartkopf Member

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    Have you noticed what number the flyer is in your group? Always first? Second? Last?
     
  4. Typetwelve

    Typetwelve Member

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    No...and that's something I plan on doing here soon. Someone suggested that the barrel heating up may be causing this. I am using H110 in all of those loads, the barrel does get really warm when the ambient temp outside of 70+.
     
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  5. Nature Boy
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    Nature Boy Contributing Member

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    What's the distance? I assume you're using irons?
     
  6. Risky buisness

    Risky buisness Member

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    It looks similar to a cheek weld issue. Where ones face contacts the stock differently from shot to shot. Fairly common.
    You can tape a BB or similar size object on the stock, choose a reference point on your face that is repeatable with the BB every time and reshoot several groups to rule in or out.
     
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  7. 3Crows

    3Crows Member

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    A lever gun, if fired consecutively, can/will heat up and can drift the shots of a group. The magazine remains cool, the barrel expands and becomes under tension. This whether it is the first shots or last shots, the POI is changing from cold to hot. Sight in for the cold (fouled) barrel for hunting. Lever guns are not intended for extended match shooting accuracy, they are hunting guns and plenty accurate cold or hot to dispatch zombies in an extended fire fight if called upon.
     
  8. kalielkslayer
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    kalielkslayer Contributing Member

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    If that’s 100 yards with a lever gun, I wouldn’t change anything.

    My range routine is 3-4 rifles, 3-4 targets, 1 shot from a rifle, open action, place in shade, move on to next gun.

    So I’m only shooting each gun about once every 5 minutes, not cold, but not hot.

    Clean after 2 groups, fouling shot, repeat.

    I’m curious if the flyer is the first round?

    Don’t think it’s a flinch, too consistent.

    If you’re loading the magazine it could be setback from recoil but I would think your group would gradually climb as pressure increases with each round as each round was subjected to more recoil than the one before it.

    Again, if that’s 100 yards, I’d be happy with it in an iron sight, lever gun.
     
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  9. Typetwelve

    Typetwelve Member

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    LOL...that's 25 yds. When I take it to 50 or 100, my groups get worse...but there's always that flyer. With my crummy eyes and a simple red dot, my realistic groups from 50 yds are typically 2-2.5" and that doubles at 100, typically 5-6". At 100 yds, that 3 MOA red dot, blurred my by astigmatism, typically covers nearly 5" of target, so it is what it is.

    I'm no expert on shooting, but I have been shooting most of 43 years on this planet. I know what a flinch looks like and like you said, this is just way to consistent. I could post more pics that look the same, but I felt the ones I provided were sufficient.

    I need some more testing to see if I can gather more info.
     
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  10. robert4301

    robert4301 Member

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    That's plenty acceptable accuracy for a 44 mag rifle. My Henry Single Shot 44 mag won't usually group any better than that. My Ruger 77/44 is about the same. My most accurate load for both rifles is with Zero 240 HP's over 8.5- 9.0 grains of BE 86 in magnum cases. This load with a 4x scope will often group 1" or a bit less at 50 yards. One thing to check on a Henry is the bolt that holds the butt stock. It needs to be pretty snug and will definitely cause accuracy problems if it's the least bit loose.
     
  11. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    Are you single loading, one cartridge at a time, or just loading up the magazine? Leave the magazine empty, and load each round one at a time, and see what happens.
     
  12. cdb1

    cdb1 Member

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    I would fire five shots but let the barrel cool down between them. Then compare.
     
  13. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

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    Step #1 for you is post #3 above by Hartkopf.

    If it is so consistent that it is ALWAYS one flyer out of each five round group AND in almost the same place. I'd want to know if it is at the beginning or end of a cycle.

    Then, if at the start, I'd try three-round groups.

    At the end, I'd feed a round per round fired.

    Another is to fire three five-round cycles with as little time between as realistically possible to eliminate cooling as a *re-set*.

    I find *problems* like yours completely captivating and fun to work through.

    Eliminate the variables, hyper-focus on the givens, compile the data and ponder over it in the shade with a coke. Rinse & repeat, Prove and disprove.

    Something I love about guns.

    Todd.
     
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  14. CoalCrackerAl

    CoalCrackerAl Member

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    My CVA hunter is zerod at 50 yards. The pic is from when i shot it in.

    img_20201228_133007-jpg.jpg
     
  15. Armednfree

    Armednfree Member

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    You need to know where that cold bore shot goes, both from a clean barrel and a dirty one. It that flier is the clean bore shot , and consistent, then sight for that. I'd shoot one and let it set for 5 minutes, doing that for 5. Fact is that's a hunting gun and you ain't getting 5 rounds in on any animal. The farther you get from one round the more irrelevant it becomes. That it comes back when it's cold is important.
     
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  16. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    That is good advise. Cold bore/warm bore is something to investigate, and the first shot from a cold clean bore is the most important shot. If you can get three shots with no flyer at a target, you would be "gold" for sure, I've always thought that 3 shots total or two follow up shots in a hunting situation covers just about any scenario to be imagined. Any lever action rifle is a hunting rifle, not a target rifle for sure. Having said all that, it is an interesting oddity and fun to investigate.

    However, I was trying to suggest that magazine tension should also be eliminated as a culprit, by shooting some single rounds with an empty magazine. You could also try the reverse, shoot one round from the gun with the magazine fully loaded, feed another round into the magazine, then shoot again, and repeat. As the magazine empties, it exerts less pressure on the muzzle. That would eliminate one variable.

    Okay good luck!
     
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  17. Hokkmike

    Hokkmike Member

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    All I can add to the discussion is that the least accurate rifle I ever owned was a .44 mag Model 94 trapper. Your groups look just fine.
     
  18. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    marblkgrp.jpg

    On the other hand, some lever-guns can do this at 100 yards. :)
     
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  19. 3Crows

    3Crows Member

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    Lever guns are not (MOA) accurate, huh? My Texan at 100 yards, it was a particularly good day:

    IMG-4152.jpg

    The .44 Magnum is not accurate huh? My new CVA at 50 yards, I was walking the shots with my new rifle and new scope, never shot it before, the only group that counts is the number 4 (upside down):

    IMG-2292.jpg
     
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  20. Typetwelve

    Typetwelve Member

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    Being my first lever gun, I wasn't sure what to expect. Last summer was the first time I took my Henry out to 100 yds, ran 250g Sierra Match projectiles through it. It managed a honest to goodness 4.581" 10-shot group. I really cannot complain much about that. That's open sights and my eyes are not so great.
     
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  21. Howland937

    Howland937 Member

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    Did you get that same flyer with the Sierra Match? Or 2 of them if it's one in every 5? What powder were you using? Maybe you weren't getting as much heat as quickly with that load?
     
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