Hey Washington State highroaders! I need your help.

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Where to begin?

How about making a law requiring people in this state to actually use their turn signals, (believe it or not, those devices come standard with all motor vehicles)? What? It's already a law? Must be those durn Californians who moved up here 'cause there's no state income tax ...

Speaking of Californians, let's have a law prohibiting them from driving on the 405 when it's raining until they've established 10 years of residency ...

Yeah, and what's up with those fishing & hunting regs? GMUs? WFT, O?You go a couple miles and the season ends a month earlier, or there's a different size limit or bag limit ... And why is it you cross the pass and it's like you're in a different state?

Let's work on those zoning ordinances that seem to require a Starbucks on every block ...

I don't care what the minimum wage in this state is, when I go to Mickey D's, I want my Big Mac in less than 15 minutes ...

Pass a law prohibiting those folks from Bainbridge Island from wearing socks with their Birkenstocks ... egad, the humanity ...
 
"A libertarian believes that he doesn't have the right to tell others what to do, provided that they are not harming anyone."
I totally agree with this philosophy. That is the definition of a free country IMHO. A place where you can do anything you want as long as it isn't hurting anyone.

So then why do you think, if I'm willing to pay $4/hr, and Bob is willing to work for it, the government has any right to tell us we can't have that arrangement?

A libertarian believes that all people must be free to enter into contracts and agreements of their own choosing.
I also agree, however, there are certain circumstances where those in power are able to collectively bargain against those who have no power and no allies.
What do you mean? And, see above.
 
Silly me I thought this was supposed to be about Gun Laws

But then again if this were located under Roundtable where it belongs i would never have seen it.

It would be positively wonderful to have a strongly pro-gun/RKBA Governator in our state.

But the "state militia" idea will NEVER fly. The logistics of overseeing such a group are mind boggling. And the liability aspect? Fugedaboudit.


Perhaps a much simpler method would be more effectice?
Such as...

Lobby for legislation that would make the cost of any .223 or .308 semi-automatic detachable magazine rifle such as AR-15, Mini-14, AR-180B, H&K 93, M1A, AR-10, FN-FAL, H&K 91 etc tax exempt. That would be all taxes from state and local sales tax all the way up tp Federal Income Tax. Make those same tax exemptions available for ammunition and accessories. This would encourage ownership of Homeland Defense Rifles and stimulate part of the economy.

You could offer the same exemptions for .45acp and 9mm pistols as well as .50 BMG rifles.

You could then promote participation in the Civilian Marksmanship Program. You would then have a sizeable body of people armed and capable of using military style weapons. (Remember the "rifleman behind every blade of grass" thingy from WWII?)

Then have the state buy surplus military ammunition and offer it to Washington residents at a deep discounted yet reasonable price.
This would also create a source of revenue for the state.

This revenue could be used to create a real firearms safety curriculum, based on the "Gunproof Your Children" philosophy, that could be started in elementary schools and continued through secondary schools. Firearms education is just as important as sex education. Both are life and death concerns.

Also:

ALLOW OPEN CARRY!

Vermont style carry added to the existing CCW regulations (just like Alaska) would be nice. Make it lawful for those people who do possess a Concealed Pistol License to carry ANYWHERE! ANYTIME!
Expand the CPL to include all dangerous or deadly weapons.

Yes! to eliminating the state ban of selective fire weapons. The Federal hoops you have to jump through to own one are more than adequate.
(Point of order, as it is, Short Barreled Rifles are NOT forbidden in WA state.)

This is all I could think of right now. I am sure there would be a few bugs that would have to be workedout but I think these are realistically possible.


However, I feel that the actual possibility of anyone having enough balls to campaign agressively making gun owners rights a high priority and still be ultimately electable is highly unlikely. Perhaps such a person does exist. If so, I would be one of the first in line to become a campaign worker.


Just my opinion and it's worth EXACTLY what youi paid for it.
 
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I know that the issue of open carry in WA has been discussed before, but where in RCW 9.41 does it specifically state that the carrying of a weapon that is not concealed is perfectly legal?? Is your statement based on the fact that it does not say open carry is illegal?

You are right about how the perception of people seeing a gun in open view (and for discussion, this is more about handguns than long guns) could result in being questioned by law enforcement but I for one would not even consider doing that if the result would be ongoing confrontation. Guess that's one reason why I have my CCW. :D

If the apparent attitude of LEO's is that you are up to no particular good by openly carrying, then why risk confrontation? Clearly trying this in Seattle or Tacoma or any of the major WA cities, you would expect this to happen. And there are some cities that can very well have ordinances or counties that have codes that expressly prohibit open carry. If there is no specific RCW or WAC that prohibits open carry, then cities and counties could be free to establish such laws within those jurisdictions.
 
Since I had moved from a state where open carry needed no permit but concealed carry did, I asked about open carry when I applied for my CPL.
I was told in no uncertain terms that it was NOT allowed and could even be construed as brandishing.
 
Yeah, raise the minimum wage to $10,000 an hour and I'll vote for you. I'll work for a month and retire. Sounds like a plan to me. No, wait -- make it $50,000/hr and I'll only have to work for a week! Not your money anyway, is it?


You got my vote. Really.
 
The goal is to raises the minimum wage to level where a minimum wage earner would still spend 100% of their income. That way, all money goes straight back into the economy, but minimum wage earners are still making enough to get by. You aren't going to change my mind on this... so....

FROM NOW ON I WILL ONLY BE TAKING MINIMUM WAGE SUGGESTIONS FROM THOSE WHO ARE CURRENTLY EARNING MINIMUM WAGE. Thank you. :neener:
 
Reagansquad ~

Good, you should be listening to me, then. :D

Langenator ~

It is not quite that simple. The specific legal language is found in RCW 9.41.270, under the heading, "Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm -- Unlawful carrying or handling -- Penalty -- Exceptions."

The statute reads,
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
The sting is found in the phrase, "... that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons."

If you alarm a passerby (and you will if you are inside city limits, or anywhere within a few dozen miles of Seattle and its suburbs), then your open carrying was against the law.

If you carry openly and no one is alarmed by it, then you apparently were doing it at a time and place, and under circumstances, where there either weren't any sheeple, or where the sheeple expected to see such behavior, and therefore it wasn't against the law.

Violating this particular law is a gross misdemeanor, punishable by loss of your CPL if you've got one.

There are a couple of exceptions. Cops, soldiers, and other public employees can open carry. Open carry is specifically legal in your fixed place of business (eg, four walls and a ceiling -- not your car if you're a taxi driver, not your booth if you're an itinerant salesman).

And check this out -- the act does not apply to:
(c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;
Which means that if you pull your gun out for the express purpose of defending yourself when A,O,J are all present, you don't have to actually fire the gun in order for it to be self-defense and protected by law.

pax
 
If there is no specific RCW or WAC that prohibits open carry, then cities and counties could be free to establish such laws within those jurisdictions.
George S ~

Not true. Washington has statewide pre-emption. That means that cities and counties may not pass laws governing the use of firearms; the state has claimed that right for itself.

The specific legal language is found in RCW RCW 9.41.290:
The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.

So the controlling language will be found in the RCWs, not in any city or county ordinance. According to RCW 9.41.300,
(2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

(a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. ....
-- but that's not the same thing as a law restricting possession or carry, which falls under state law only.

A city, town, county, or other municipality may pass a law restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center which is operated by the city, town, county, or other municipality. But if they do so, the restriction cannot apply to CPL holders who are legally carrying concealed.

In other words, if they pass an ordinance that says you can't carry in the city convention center, it doesn't apply to you as a CPL holder. This one is routinely violated by cities thinking they can get away with it, and routinely cows CPL holders who don't realize the "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" signs do not apply to them.

And they can't pass laws about open carry. The state has claimed that right for itself.

pax
 
FROM NOW ON I WILL ONLY BE TAKING MINIMUM WAGE SUGGESTIONS FROM THOSE WHO ARE CURRENTLY EARNING MINIMUM WAGE. Thank you.

With logic like that, I'd be loathe to vote for you.

Did it occur to you that the minimum wage affects other people too? Like the businesses that will shut down because they can't pay it? Or the other, better-paid employees that will be laid off? Or the new workers (immigrants, children) who won't be able to get any sort of job in your new feel-good economy?

Good luck with the campaign.
 
reagansquad said;
I'm planning to run for Governator of Washington State in the near future.

Matt Payne, no need to worry about voting for him. Since he is only 23 it will be the very distant future before his name will appear on a Gubernatorial ballot.
Perhaps by then he will becone able to grasp the basics of real life economics.
 
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