Hi Gents. Seeking a pocket pistol. (deep CC)
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bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
I use a Bersa Thunder 380.
MICHAEL T
Member
Colt Mustang is my choice for a SA POCKET PISTOL. 380 Why buy a Sig copy when can have the original.
KelTec PF-9 in a 9mm Mine passed 500 trouble free rounds a long time ago.
KelTec PF-9 in a 9mm Mine passed 500 trouble free rounds a long time ago.
corton93
Member
Honestly, (and I cant believe im saying this) Im going to have to go 380 over 9mm with the Sig 238. BUT, only for one reason, and I know Im going to catch flack for this. Since my own testing, I will only carry a 380 with the Leigh High Defense Xtreme Penetrator round, (yes, the one with the cross-shaped bullet, I know..) but loaded by Underwood ammo (slightly higher pressure than Leigh High). Out of my Sig 238, into 10% ordnance gel, I CONSISTENTLY get 14-15 inches of penetration at 10 yards with the same size wound channel as my 9mm Gold Dots out of my Kahr PM9. And I've shot over 300 rounds of this stuff for T&R out of MY P238 and have never had one single malfunction. Im over the hype on this stuff, I am a believer. It is the only 380 round I will ever again consider carrying.
FLNT4EVR
Member
Sig P238 is my favorite pocket gun.I load it with Fed.Hydra-Shoks and I'm good to go.
bannockburn
Member
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1) SIG P238
2) Kahr CM9
3) S&W Model 442
2) Kahr CM9
3) S&W Model 442
JamieC
Member
My wife's P238 came with an ambidextrous safety. Actually looking to change it to a righty only. The lefty side pinches her sometimes. She tested quite a few different guns of this type, the P238 won easily. I'm not big on the 380 round, but this little gun sure makes a case for it. Seems to fit the OP's needs. I have a PF9 I've carried for a few years, after some initial issues, it's been flawless, carries well in my pockets.
GoldieMI
Member
Sig P238
the mini 1911.
I know it's a .380 but of the choices, It would be ECD out of therm. The old magazine/FTF issue is long past. And the stock sights are actually useable.
238 would be my choice.
the mini 1911.
I know it's a .380 but of the choices, It would be ECD out of therm. The old magazine/FTF issue is long past. And the stock sights are actually useable.
238 would be my choice.
Lord Teapot
Member
lcp
JRH6856
Member
I didn't know Sig had added the ambi safety option. Thanks. (now I just have to find one).
JB357MAG
Member
Check out the Taurus TCP 738 .380
Jimmy
Jimmy
jad0110
Member
First, I'll start by saying that I have no qualms with carrying a cocked and locked 1911 IWB.
Second, in a pocket gun, even with a holster I don't want something cocked and locked that is that close to my, errr, family jewels
.
Personally, I pocket carry a J Frame. Yes, something like an LCP would be a little smaller, but I've also never had one single hiccup with the 642. And after years of fire and dry fire, the trigger has gotten amazingly slick. Very, very shootable little gun with the proper grip and trigger control technique, more so than any other pocket auto or revolver in my hands.
Oh, and with a Robert Mika pocket holster, my 642 doesn't look like a tumor. It just looks like a wallet.
Were I to pocket carry an auto, I think I'd go with a Kahr CW380. It has a nice, smooth DA trigger that is relatively close in feel to my 642. I may pick up up yet for carry in some of my pants with smaller pockets. Either that or I'll just sew in deeper pockets, I do love that 642.
Granted, trigger weight has never bothered me as long as it is smooth. In fact, I tend to shoot smooth heavy triggered firearms better than light triggered ones.
Second, in a pocket gun, even with a holster I don't want something cocked and locked that is that close to my, errr, family jewels
.Personally, I pocket carry a J Frame. Yes, something like an LCP would be a little smaller, but I've also never had one single hiccup with the 642. And after years of fire and dry fire, the trigger has gotten amazingly slick. Very, very shootable little gun with the proper grip and trigger control technique, more so than any other pocket auto or revolver in my hands.
Oh, and with a Robert Mika pocket holster, my 642 doesn't look like a tumor. It just looks like a wallet.
Were I to pocket carry an auto, I think I'd go with a Kahr CW380. It has a nice, smooth DA trigger that is relatively close in feel to my 642. I may pick up up yet for carry in some of my pants with smaller pockets. Either that or I'll just sew in deeper pockets, I do love that 642.
Granted, trigger weight has never bothered me as long as it is smooth. In fact, I tend to shoot smooth heavy triggered firearms better than light triggered ones.
george burns
Member
I would never after 40+ years of carrying a defensive gun, carry a 380 in order to save 1/2 inch of space. A pm9 has worked incredibly well for 5 years now, and I have a lot of guns, "many of which I now got or am getting rid of".
You just cannot compare a 380 with a 9mm. It is apples and oranges. Like a 357 and a 38.
Don't let the marketing people get into your head. It's the difference of at least 40% or more power, some say double. There I said it, look up the research and see for yourself. That 17 oz Kahr with the 50 grain "civil defense ammo", "look it up if not familiar" at 2000 fps, is going to be lighter than your keltek or LCP, because of the ammo. It's also going to devastate anything you hit with it anywhere in the upper left quadrant. Carry on
You just cannot compare a 380 with a 9mm. It is apples and oranges. Like a 357 and a 38.
Don't let the marketing people get into your head. It's the difference of at least 40% or more power, some say double. There I said it, look up the research and see for yourself. That 17 oz Kahr with the 50 grain "civil defense ammo", "look it up if not familiar" at 2000 fps, is going to be lighter than your keltek or LCP, because of the ammo. It's also going to devastate anything you hit with it anywhere in the upper left quadrant. Carry on
I wanted something that fit in my front pocket and was capable of 12+ inches of penetration through 4 layers of heavy denim.
All of the testing that I could find at the time had .380 hollow point stopping at 10" penetration and the FMJ, even truncated flat nosed penetrating 17-18 inches and even zipping out the back of 19" blocks.
There didn't seem to be a way to get the round to penetrate between 12 to 15 inches.
.40 S&W and .45 ACP couldn't be made small enough or light enough to fit into a pocket.
The Rohrbaugh R9 could fire the 9mm cartridge out of a ~3" barrel and deliver 14 - 15" of penetration through 4-layer denim and still expand to around .60+ caliber.
So I bought one
My problem with the 380 AUTO at the time was that most of the gel tests I'd seen showed the hollow points topping out at 10" penetration (when they expanded) and the FMJ, even truncated flat nosed penetrating 17-18 inches and even zipping out the back of 19" blocks.
There didn't seem to be a way to get the round to penetrate between 12 to 15 inches.
That may be changing with new bullet designs.
In the late 80s and early 90s the FBI was driving bullet design and development for the 9mm and 40 S&W, and we saw tremendous improvements in bullet designs and terminal performance. IMO though, the ammo manufacturers didn't put nearly as much research or development effort in the 380 ACP. They did however, slap their name brands on the 380 cartridges, which gave the impression that 380 rounds like PDX and Golden Saber were going to perform as well as their big caliber cousins. What we saw though is that many of these name-brand cartridges don't do any better than any of the other 380 loadings out there, and don't do that well in general. Many of the hollow points had a high failure rate and when they failed to expand, would penetrate 20+ inches, and when the hollow points did expand they usually stopped short of 10"
Now we've seen a boom in the 380 ACP pocket pistol market with many owners who are intelligent shooters with good knowledge of terminal ballistics now looking for 380 cartridges that perform well out of the 3" barrels.
I think that is creating a market for someone to create bullet designs and loadings that penetrate 4 layers of denim and penetrate to around 13" of gel with some (controlled) expansion, out of 3" barrels.
I think we will see improved 380 ACP performance in the future. We've seen Precision One's loading of the Hornady XTP yield good results in testing. We're already seeing interesting designs like the Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator.
Like the 9mm versus .40 S&W debate of the past - the question may not be .380 ACP as a gun, the answer may be the cartridges developed for the gun.
edmo01
Member
My recommendation for a pocket gun isn't one on your list and isn't a pistol. I recommend a S&W model 642...
It is a 5 shot J-frame chambered in 38 Special +P weighing in at just under a pound. The +P rounds are snappy, but will give slightly better ballistics than a similar 380 ACP round.
Why a 642? It is small enough to drop into a pocket holster and slide into your front pocket without drawing attention and the light aluminum frame will not pull down your shorts.
The other reason is reliability. As autos shrink in size, their reliability can start to slip. However, unless you have a mechanical failure, a revolver will go bang every time. If it doesn't go bang (dud round), the failure drill is to pull the trigger again! You will not have issues with stiff springs in small hard to grasp slides and there are no magazine springs to weaken over time.
If you feel 5 rounds isn't enough or you frequent locations which are "higher risk" you will likely need more rounds than even a pocket auto holds. Those times find me carrying a mid to full sized gun with a spare mag, or even better avoiding the area altogether.
Just a thought...
Edmo
It is a 5 shot J-frame chambered in 38 Special +P weighing in at just under a pound. The +P rounds are snappy, but will give slightly better ballistics than a similar 380 ACP round.
Why a 642? It is small enough to drop into a pocket holster and slide into your front pocket without drawing attention and the light aluminum frame will not pull down your shorts.
The other reason is reliability. As autos shrink in size, their reliability can start to slip. However, unless you have a mechanical failure, a revolver will go bang every time. If it doesn't go bang (dud round), the failure drill is to pull the trigger again! You will not have issues with stiff springs in small hard to grasp slides and there are no magazine springs to weaken over time.
If you feel 5 rounds isn't enough or you frequent locations which are "higher risk" you will likely need more rounds than even a pocket auto holds. Those times find me carrying a mid to full sized gun with a spare mag, or even better avoiding the area altogether.
Just a thought...
Edmo
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You might look at the Seecamp: http://seecamp.com/index.htm
billwitten
Member
I have owned the Kahr CM9 & PM40. I found them to be unreliable in real-world scenarios. Carry it in the pocket all day then take it to the range and try to get 3 full magazines out of it without a stoppage. I couldn't--even after I did a lot of polishing and "adjusted" the slide's tolerance for pocket-borne lint, etc. A good firearm but just not in the class of the Glock from a tactical viewpoint.
The 938 and the 238 both fail to impress me. Condition 1 in the pocket with children around (I have twin 5 y/os) is not something I can do.
I bought the Glock 42 as soon as they came out. Very impressed with the reliability but not so much with the trigger. My top concern is always reliability, though. Haven't had the opportunity to work with a 43 yet but looking forward to it.
Disclaimer: I am former infantryman who is a tactical-minded utilitarian and has a nearly-unhealthy affinity for weapons. My opinions are just that, although often strongly stated. YMMV.
The 938 and the 238 both fail to impress me. Condition 1 in the pocket with children around (I have twin 5 y/os) is not something I can do.
I bought the Glock 42 as soon as they came out. Very impressed with the reliability but not so much with the trigger. My top concern is always reliability, though. Haven't had the opportunity to work with a 43 yet but looking forward to it.
Disclaimer: I am former infantryman who is a tactical-minded utilitarian and has a nearly-unhealthy affinity for weapons. My opinions are just that, although often strongly stated. YMMV.
george burns
Member
We all experience different results with the same models at times.
I took my pm9 to the range with 6 mags I actually have 6 from various Kahr guns over the years,
Loaded them with as many types of 9mm as I had at the time, and didn't experience 1 misfire or any other FTE, FTF etc. I do this a few times every year and put it back in my pocket holster.
My first P9 20+ yrs ago was a dog, this PM9 was sent back for night sights and a complete reliability check, including a polishing of all the internals along with the trigger.
It shoots anything you put in it.
If I could only have one gun like in NYC, it would be a revolver in 357 like the S&W 340pd with Crimson trace on it. A 12-13 oz gun with potential for a 357 mag if you desired.
I took my pm9 to the range with 6 mags I actually have 6 from various Kahr guns over the years,
Loaded them with as many types of 9mm as I had at the time, and didn't experience 1 misfire or any other FTE, FTF etc. I do this a few times every year and put it back in my pocket holster.
My first P9 20+ yrs ago was a dog, this PM9 was sent back for night sights and a complete reliability check, including a polishing of all the internals along with the trigger.
It shoots anything you put in it.
If I could only have one gun like in NYC, it would be a revolver in 357 like the S&W 340pd with Crimson trace on it. A 12-13 oz gun with potential for a 357 mag if you desired.
thefamcnaj
Member
Kahr p380.
Small, lite, and accurate.
Buttery smooth trigger. All n all a great pocket gun.
Small, lite, and accurate.
Buttery smooth trigger. All n all a great pocket gun.
george burns
Member
Kahr will do a reliability check and a polishing and test fire your gun for a modest fee.
If it's a gun you plan on carrying to protect life and limb, and you are happy with everything other than an occasional hang up, then send it in and allow their gunsmiths to give it the full carry treatment. You will have peace of mind and a heck of a gun.
If it's a gun you plan on carrying to protect life and limb, and you are happy with everything other than an occasional hang up, then send it in and allow their gunsmiths to give it the full carry treatment. You will have peace of mind and a heck of a gun.
Gravedigger56
Member
I currently have a Sig P938. I carry it IWB, OWB and pocket (back). I think it is better suited for IWB and just a tad bulky for a good pocket-carry gun and does print. I wish they made a leather "wallet" style pocket holster for it like an Uncle George or similar. Currently I am thinking of getting rid of it in favor of a Kimber Micro.
Glock 42
Out of your list, I would go with the GLOCK 42 in .380ACP.
It has gotten a lot of hype and a lot of criticism, but my experience with it is that it lives up to the hype.
It is about the size of my old carry gun, a WALTHER PPK. Just as compact, much lighter and the recoil of a .380ACP round is about the same as a .32ACP from the HEAVIER PPK.
I found the accuracy and sights sufficient for 25 yard shots without any problem.
The one thing to remember is that it is a GLOCK, so grip tightly and NEVER TOUCH THE TRIGGER TILL YOU ARE GOING TO SHOOT.
I carry mine all the time in a GALCO Pocket holster in my right front pants pocket. The spare mag goes in the left pocket.
Jim
My reload, goes in the
Out of your list, I would go with the GLOCK 42 in .380ACP.
It has gotten a lot of hype and a lot of criticism, but my experience with it is that it lives up to the hype.
It is about the size of my old carry gun, a WALTHER PPK. Just as compact, much lighter and the recoil of a .380ACP round is about the same as a .32ACP from the HEAVIER PPK.
I found the accuracy and sights sufficient for 25 yard shots without any problem.
The one thing to remember is that it is a GLOCK, so grip tightly and NEVER TOUCH THE TRIGGER TILL YOU ARE GOING TO SHOOT.
I carry mine all the time in a GALCO Pocket holster in my right front pants pocket. The spare mag goes in the left pocket.
Jim
My reload, goes in the
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