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High end rifle scopes?!

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by Jasper1573, Jun 28, 2012.

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  1. Jasper1573

    Jasper1573 Member

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    I recently purchased a Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x50mm scope. Great scope...near perfect tracking around a 20MOA box, clear glass, etc.; except, after zeroing the scope at 100 yards I found I only had about 25 MOA upward elevation adjustment with a 20 MOA base...and that won't get me out to 1000 yards with a .308 Win without combining scope adjustment and mildots...a complex mental calculation when taking windage into account as well. So, I unfortunately had to return the scope.

    Now that I have had a $1000 scope in my hand and on my rifle, I have been window shopping around on the internet.

    Dang...Swarovski doesn't offer a mildot reticle that I could find; Schmidt and Bender requires a year's worth of saving money to buy one, and it still may not be the exact scope you want; Zeiss makes great scopes with many options, but the cost is equal to the Schmidt and Bender, so no grace there. Then there's Nightforce, US Optics, etc.

    What's a fellow to do?

    If I were to design my own scope, it would have a 50mm objective, side focus would be nice but not a show stopper, 30mm tube for improved E/W adjustment , at least 40 MOA up and down (80 MOA range) with 20 MOA left and right (40 MOA range), near perfect (1 MOA) tracking around a 40 MOA box so you know it would be repeatable from 100 yds out to 1000 yds and back down to 100 yds; an enhanced mildot-style reticle similar to the HORUS, but not quite that detailed; 4-30x; waterproof, fogproof, shockproof.

    Is there anything that I am forgetting? Oh yes, less than $2000 with an unconditional lifetime guarantee.

    Is that asking too much? All of these features can be found in a multitude of scopes; however, you would have to combine 4 or 5 different brands to get them all in one scope, but the cost would still be an issue.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. floorit76

    floorit76 Member

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  3. Jasper1573

    Jasper1573 Member

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    Last edited: Jun 28, 2012
  4. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    since you put this in the competition thread, what kind of competition are you shooting with it?
     
  5. Jasper1573

    Jasper1573 Member

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    F-Class and modified F-Class from 300 to 1000 yards. Hoping to invest in a good piece of glass that is somewhat reasonable in price and will last.

    Paraphrasing Todd Hoddnett...You can have five scopes worth $2000 or one good scope worth $2000. He said something to that effect on the Magpul videos entitled, "Art of the Precision Rifle."
     
  6. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    for f-class, i'd recommend a nightforce benchrest model. 12-42x56. you don't need mil-dot reticle. you don't need illumination. you don't need FFP. you don't need side parallax.

    you just need good, clear glass, and target turrets that track.

    you can get them for $1200ish

    (edit: and i'd recommend making sure "art of the precision rifle" isn't your only source of info for precision rifle. fwiw, imho after price increases this year, "high end" starts in the low $3000s. NF is definitely quality kit though)
     
  7. Jasper1573

    Jasper1573 Member

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    Yes, I agree mostly...I don't care for an illuminated reticle as it is rarely used even with hunting, and the FFP isn't required either. With their MOAR reticle and other similar reticles such as the HORUS, it is magnified too much at higher powers and much of the reticle appears to be outside the FOV.

    However, I do like a mildot or mildot style reticle for windage adjustments without having to crank it in every time the air changes direction and speed...side parallax is a nice feature, but I agree it isn't necessary.

    Thanks for the advice...I am looking at the NF scopes available on the web, but haven't seen any at that low a price...I will look a bit harder. $1200 is a lot more palatable than $1800.

    Thanks.
     
  8. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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  9. YankeeFlyr

    YankeeFlyr Member

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    Off topic...maybe....

    Could you not have mounted it with the optical axis slightly 'off' (in elevation); in other words, mounted with a pre-elevated angle?

    I've heard of it for really long range shooting. Never seen it, though.

    Not available in a compatible mount?
     
  10. Jasper1573

    Jasper1573 Member

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    Yep, opticsplanet is one of the first places I go to see what's available...thanks for the links...I will investigate.
     
  11. Jasper1573

    Jasper1573 Member

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    If I understand what you are saying, you mean to shim the scope to achieve more adjustment?

    I thought about this, but I didn't want to shim or adjust a scope to make it do more than it is truly designed to do. Nightforce makes a 40 MOA base that would have compensated for the lack of elevation adjustment, but that was another $120 or so, and I just don't want to be adding to the cost of the scope to make it meet my needs, but would rather have a scope that comes out of the box satisfying my requirements.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  12. dprice3844444

    dprice3844444 member

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    se fla i love claymores 01/sot
  13. YankeeFlyr

    YankeeFlyr Member

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    Yeah, like that...a pre-elevated mount.
     
  14. atblis

    atblis Member

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    Neither here nor there
  15. pcf

    pcf Member

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    Something was not right on your rifle and/or scope. From what I found on the internet the 6.5x20 conquest has 45 MOA of adjustment. Without the 20 MOA base you would have just about run out of elevation on you scope to zero. In theory you should have had closer to 40 MOA of upward elevation with a 20 MOA base.

    Do you have the same problem with other scopes on the rifle with the same bases and rings?

    If it's not the scope a +40 MOA scope base will probably be cheaper fix than buying a scope with a greater adjustment range or a trip to rifle smith.
     
  16. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I agree with the previous poster, something does not add up.

    If you put a true 20 MOA base on your rifle you should be able to be on center at 100 yards.

    I have a 6 X luepold on my Ruger 308, I could not get on target with standard mounts, but I was able with 20 MOA mounts. A 6X scope is not the best, or even a good solution for F class, but it was something I had and shot it a couple of times at long range.
     
  17. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    A March X series would do what you want... but not for $2000.

    I'd get the Nightforce BR and put it on a 20 MOA base which can be had from EGW or Weaver for a lot less than $140.

    The BR 8-32X is $1286 at Optics Planet. That is plenty of magnification for me, a fixed 36X was really more than I could handle even off a bench.
    http://www.opticsplanet.com/nightforce-benchrest-riflescopes.html
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  18. 2000Yards

    2000Yards Member

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    Ditto - something is wrong. The scope should give you about 22MOA travel up and down (eh, I have to ask: you're using it for long range, why get a scope with such limited (45MOA) elevation adjustment? I've seen this in a lot of Zeiss scopes and it shouts to me "For use under 700 yards ONLY.") - OK back to 22MOA elevation travel, each direction - so with a 20MOA base that's about 42 MOA ... almost 1000 yards with 168 grain .308 BTHP rounds.

    Sometimes the reticle center is badly mis-aligned with the central line of the scope, which would give you far more elevation travel in one direction than in another, relative to the scopes center-line.

    Anyway, is there a reason you aren't considering a Leupold Mark IV?

    2KYDS
     
  19. Jasper1573

    Jasper1573 Member

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    Reference the 1st quote above, I have a Sightron SIII fixed 20x42mm...great scope, but after shooting it in a recent match from 100 yards out to 1000 yards, I noted that the tracking MAY have been off by as much as a minute of angle when I returned to my original zero setting, so I am investigating other higher quality scopes; but, I agree, Sightron is a good bang for the buck.

    Reference the 2nd and 3rd quotes above, I agree, something just didn't make sense to me about this whole thing either. I have a Larue 20 MOA picatinny rail on my Rem 700 in 308 Win and have had no problems like this before. I have used several scopes on that rail to include Bushnell, Sightron, and Nikon with no problems at all.

    According to the instruction booklet that came with the Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x50mm,
    it says...
    Special requirements should be met when sighting in the Conquest
    6.5 – 20 x 50 MC riflescope. To be able to use the full range of the elevation adjustment, the riflescope should be mounted on the rifle at an angle of approx. 20 angular minutes with commercially available mounting systems (corresponds to
    21 inch/100 yards or 58.4 cm/100 m).
    .

    Conquest 6.5 – 20x50 MC:
    Elevation adjustment = 45 inches /100 yards = 175 clicks
    Windage adjustment = 30 inches /100 yards = 120 clicks


    I thought that with a zero MOA base, I would have about 22 MOA of upwards adjustment and then about 42 minutes of upwards adjustment with the 20 MOA base. Apparently, the scope requires a 20 MOA base to have the advertised elevation range...which is really strange, but that note is in bold in the instruction manual. Other than the instruction manual, I haven't found that information anywhere else on the internet where the Conquest scope is being sold. If anyone has a different interpretation of the words in bold above, please post. I did contact Zeiss, and the tech rep confirmed the meaning of the notes above. Also, there was no problem zeroing the scope at 100 yards, it was beyond 500 yards that would have been the issue.
     
  20. Jasper1573

    Jasper1573 Member

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    Nope, I have looked at a Leupold in various flavors, just haven't seen one that bit me real hard.

    Problem is, there are too many really good scopes out there with too many really good options.

    If I could find a scope that meets my original description in post 1 of this thread, I would likely drop the cash right now...then again, it's difficult to be sure of all the options without mounting and shooting the scope...and then they won't take it back if it doesn't meet your requirements and expectations.

    I will investigate the Leupold more closely...any particular suggestion(s) on which model will most closely meet my requirements?
     
  21. pcf

    pcf Member

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    .......
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  22. pcf

    pcf Member

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    You have it right. By full range of adjustment they mean they mean taking advantage of all possible upwards elevation. With a +20 MOA base you should be nearly bottomed out on elevation when zero'd at 100-200 yards, meaning you have the full range of elevation available to use when shooting at longer distances. You should have had somewhere around 40 MOA of positive elevation.
     
  23. 2000Yards

    2000Yards Member

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    It doesn't meet all of your requirements, but take a look at:

    Leupold Mark 4 6.5-20x50mm Extended Range/Tactical (ER/T) M5 riflescope (34mm locking version). This scope features First Focal Plane (FFP) Horus ranging reticles (H27 or H58), side parallax adjustment, and a beefy 34mm maintube.

    I have a Mark 4 M2 scope and absolutely love it.
     
  24. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    2000yrds, he's shooting f-class. why would he want a tactical style scope with FFP, ranging reticles and locking turrets? yeah, i want all that stuff shooting tactical matches, but i don't want any of it on my scope shooting f-class.


    if you want a 4-30x, i believe bushnell is coming out with an HDMR in a month or so that is exactly that. and 50mm. however, i expect it to have locking turrets.
     
  25. quartermaster

    quartermaster Member

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    I would agree with atblis. I have 2 of them. They are a great value.
     
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