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High Power? (Service Rifle)

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by FunGunner, Dec 26, 2004.

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  1. FunGunner

    FunGunner Member

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    Are there any other forums about shooting High Power SR?

    Trying to get a stick together, can anyone recommend a builder?

    And yes I have read most of the posts here on the subject.

    Thanks for your time and attention
     
  2. Quintin Likely

    Quintin Likely Member

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    There's nationalmatch.us and it's sister site, long-range.com, the Competition boards at AR15.com, the Competition section at TFL, there's quite a few highpower boards on Delphi, most of them can be accessed via ushighpower.com.

    As far as builders, John Holliger and Compass Lake Engineering are held in high regard; my next upper will probably be from Holliger (www.whiteoakarmament.com) White Oak's CMP upper is probably the best all around deal you'll get. Pair that up with a RRA lower with a White Oak tuned RRA trigger and you'll have a service rifle that'll make the X-ring wish it weren't so accurate if you can hold. Or, if this is your first go around with the service rifle, you could buy a complete rifle from RRA or Armalite, spend the first season burning the barrel up in it learning the game, then send to White Oak or CLE to rebarrel with all the goodies.
     
  3. milanuk

    milanuk Member

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    AR15.com, 'Competitive Shooting and the Accurate AR'
    http://ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=10

    NationalMatch.us
    http://www.nationalmatch.us/forums/index.php?


    As far as gunsmiths... if you want to start out w/ top-shelf equipment out of the gate, check out Derrick Martin @ Accuracy Speaks, Frank White @ Compass Lake Engineering, or John Holliger @ White Oak Precision. In reality I think the 'factory' guns sold as 'DCM', 'CMP', or 'National Match' models should have sufficient capability to take you thru Expert on into Master, based on what I've heard (don't shoot that well myself yet). By that time, or on the way, you'll probably use up the factory barrel, and then send the upper off to one of the above 'smiths for a new barrel and some new tricks w/ the sights. Another option is a gun from White Oak Armament, a spinoff of White Oak Precision. Same gunsmith, John Holliger, still using largely RRA components, but a Wilson barrel w/ a chamber cut w/ CNC by Frank White rather than a Kreiger, and some but not all the frills on the sights. Saves you $200-300 just on the upper alone. Thats what I have, and I'll say that when I pull my head out, the gun sure aint whats holding me back.

    Monte
     
  4. FunGunner

    FunGunner Member

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    Thanks, guys. I haven't picked up a service type rifle since I got out of the service in ‘98 and am not new to the game, but a little rusty. Just wanted to see what the water is like money wise, before taking the plunge, because I'm starting from squat. Rifle, mags, sling, spotting scope, spotting scope cover, flag safety, spotting scope stand, cart, mat, jacket, carbon lamp, log, glove, ammo, this stuff adds up quick. So, I'll probably be going low rent anyway for now. Build a RRA standard A2 SS, piece of carpet, web sling, sweat/coat, padded welding glove, Fed GM ammo, and read the wind the hard way, lots of practice etc....

    Anyone know what the Butner Range is like? It’s the closest one to me at about 45min away. Anyone here shoot there?

    Thanks
     
  5. milanuk

    milanuk Member

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    No idea on Butner, I'm up in WA state.

    As far as ammo... I'd recommend some of the reman stuff from Black Hills w/ 75-77gr pills, or else bop on over to www.njhighpower.com and checkout the link 'Major's Stuph'. Basically 75gr BTHP loaded over Varget (excellent load, btw) produced initially w/ military once-fired cases, now I think w/ steel cases and russian primers (supposedly more consistent), for around $265/1000rds or so, + about $15-20 S&H. By comparison, Black Hills blue box reman stuff from Georgia Precision or Midway runs about $360-375/1000 + S&H. Fed GM... $159/200rds, or about $800/1000. Ouch. Your choice. The Major's stuff is a little more (about $50/1000) than I can reload it for, but I do have all the equipment lined up to do it.

    HTH,

    Monte
     
  6. FunGunner

    FunGunner Member

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    Thanks for the tip on the Major ammo Monte!
     
  7. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    I am a Master Service Rifle competitor. I would definitely say that the average "NM" RRA will shoot to low Master levels but you may decide that there are things that could use improvement. I run several Holliger guns and I'm very happy with the service they and he have provided. I know Frank can turn out a good gun too. If on the other hand you really need to pinch pennies then get the RRA NM and call it good.

    Look at www.ray-vin.com for the best scope stands and sight smokers on the market. Check www.jarheadtop.com for spotting scopes.
     
  8. Quintin Likely

    Quintin Likely Member

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    Santa brought me a Kowa 661 from Jarheadtop; I can't recommend him enough if you're looking for a spotting scope. His wife passed away recently though, so he's moving to Alabama near his daughter, so it might be a few weeks before you can get hold of him again. But when you do, I doubt you'll find better prices, ships so fast you'll have to duck too. I think my scope stand will be a Ray-Vin too.
     
  9. Jon Coppenbarger

    Jon Coppenbarger Member

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    Jims wife passed? I am very sorry to see that and my sorrow is I am sure shared by many is the shooting world. Jim does alot for the juniors and the clubs that support the juniors around the country more than I could mention here.

    Jim thank you and may your wife's memory be with us.
    God bless you and your family.

    Jon
     
  10. Jon Coppenbarger

    Jon Coppenbarger Member

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    When you get the ray-vin scope stand make sure you get the ray-vin scope mount and also his quick release scope attachment for it. If you ask nicely he may even put it on for you? His sight smoker is second to none and you ought to get it also.
    Tell Ray I said hello from Colorado and I will stop and see him in August at Perry.

    Jon Coppenbarger
     
  11. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Are you talking about Camp Butner in NC?
     
  12. FunGunner

    FunGunner Member

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    Thanks guys.

    I wish I could pony up for a Holliger or a RRA NM, but it looks like a all RRA parts A2 with a wilson SS barrel, maybe if I can swing it. I'm starting with nothing, so I'm picking equipment carfully. Basics, I'm thinking are: rifle, three 20 round mags, 1k ammo, carpet(optional but it's free), and web sling. I already have some pretty good binos, so I'll hold off on the spotting scope for now. A 40mm ammo can is going to be my stool. I'm thinking about putting on some wheels and a piece of rebar for a tow handle. :neener: I'm going real low rent on equipment right now, and getting started is more important that gear to me anyway. I'll get all the other junk later.

    Steve, yep the North State Shooting Club, at Camp Butner National Guard range. It's about 45 min away and the Durham rifle and pistol club is about the same. :evil: Butner has the full course and DRPC has a 200 reduced I think, but I'll go to both. :evil:
     
  13. milanuk

    milanuk Member

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    Something else to consider, if you haven't already... purchase the upper and the lower separately. Usually a good chunk cheaper that way, and you can have the upper shipped to your door (only have to have the lower go thru an FFL). That might bring a RRA NM upper w/i financial reach (they use Wilson barrels as well, nothing wrong w/ them, thats what WOA uses also). Another option would be to get a DPMS NM upper from Midway when they go on sale... normally something like $515, on sale down to $485 or so.

    HTH,

    Monte
     
  14. Quintin Likely

    Quintin Likely Member

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    Get a float tube on that upper if you can. Other issues aside, I think a float tube and a good trigger are probably the two biggest helpers. If you're shooting across the course, a 1:8 or faster twist would be optimal, but 1:9 will do. I had decent results with 75 gr Hornadys (the standard BTHP, not the A-MAX) out of a 20" 1:9 twist Bushmaster upper. Three magazines is good, I like having five total myself. I load two with 2 rounds and two with 8 rounds so I don't have to reload magazines between rapid strings. Then the last magazine I have is my slow fire magazine.

    My first match, I had my 20" NM A2 RRA upper on a Bushmaster lower with their two stage trigger (that I poorly set up, BTW), a beach towel for a mat, no scope, no jacket, a handful of Black Hills reman ammo with 77 gr. Sierras, a Wal-Mart 1907 sling and a lot of hope. Didn't do too well, but I still had a blast and I learned from it, which I think are probably the most important things when starting out. Don't get too hung up on equipment. If you're shooting at a match where there's enough people for more than one relay, more than likely there'll be someone that'll share their scope, mat, etc. with you. Highpower rifle folk are possibly the nicest competitors I've ever been around, guys who are still dead serious about their shooting but won't hesistate to fall over themselves to help you out and see that you get rounds on paper and have a good time doing it.
     
  15. Jon Coppenbarger

    Jon Coppenbarger Member

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    Contact the club where you are planning on shooting and ask tell the match director what you are doing and ask if he can help you get in contact with someone close that can get you a rra's match rifle or upper for a small finders fee or if they have any suggestions.
    Rock river does have a competitive shooters program even if it is not advertised threw the cmp. Just ask someone if they would put the cmp stamp on your lower if you wish it. Not only will you have to get permission threw the cmp but they will charge you quite alot to get it done.

    The cost threw a rifle club with rock river is the dealers price on a rifle which is I believe right now $875 complete. IF you are a junior or have a junior that plans on shooting your price is like $760 I believe. ASk and you may find you can get some good deals out there and a lot of help that you might not of thought of.
    I am the director here at our club and we even lease out a rifle for 1 year at our cost plus like $40 I Believe to get serious folks into the sport and help them. a person signs a agreement lease with us and puts a $100 deposit on the rifle and they have a year to pay it or at the end of the year you either pay the balance or return the rifle. If you buy it after you lease it the $100 come off the price of the rifle. So lets say we lease the rifle for $925 minus your $100 with a balance of say $825 thats what you would pay us if you wanted to keep it.
    So you see there are alot of clubs and folks out there trying to help. Jon
     
  16. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Camp Butner is supposed to be a really nice place...perhaps one of the best ranges in the country!

    These guys have set you straight. At the very least get yourself a RRA NM model rifle.
     
  17. FunGunner

    FunGunner Member

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    Thanks for all the tips, I'm working with about $775 for everything including ammo and cutting corners where ever I can. I don't have any notion of busting down any walls in my first match, but I need to get started period. I've got some idea about the way things work at a match and am pretty sure of where my marksmanship skills are at this point (I shot 239 out of 250 at boot camp, and usually 55 or better out of 60 on requals, not great, but better than most Marines.) It's the finer points, I need to get back, reading the wind is a big one, fine tuning my positions is another, and working on shot focus etc.... I can worry about getting a better rifle and all that other junk later, I'll work on shooting now with rifle, mags, ammo, and sling. If I though I needed more than that to start, I wouldn't even try. Till then, I'll be saving my lunch money, and shooting every match I can.

    Thanks everyone for all the advice, tips and info.
     
  18. BlindRat

    BlindRat Member

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    I'll put in another vote for John Holliger or Frank White as a builder when you're ready to take that step.

    I've been to Camp Butner. It's an old style military range - wide open all the way back to 1000 yards. The carriages are electric powered so pulling targets is a breeze. When I notified the NSSC folk that I was headed to NC and wanted to shoot a match. They bent over backwards to get me there...too bad a hurricane kept me from making it. I've now met and shot with a bunch of folk now that call Camp Butner their home range and every single one of them has been outstanding individuals.

    Good luck to you.
     
  19. Sven

    Sven Senior Member

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    I also recommend Santa for all your Highpower needs, esp. considering the price of getting started! ;) :neener:
     
  20. Quintin Likely

    Quintin Likely Member

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    That fat cheapskate didn't bring me a stand to stick this thing on though! Oh well, can't win 'em all, I guess. :)
     
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