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Highpower positions, sling use, and gloves...pics!

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by Steve Smith, Mar 15, 2003.

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  1. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    I've noticed a lot of questions about how this and that works for HP, so I took some time today and made up some pics. Now, everyone has a different body and different methods, but hopefully this is good enough to get some basics across to you guys. These postitions get me Master level scores consistently, so they're pretty good. They do change a little from match to match but the build up is the same. Hopefully you will also see how the sling works and how to use the glove and other equipment. BTW, this is the first time I've slathered my pics on the internet, so consider yourselves lucky (that you haven't had to look at my face before now).



    Standing

    A comments here:

    In this one you can see that the rifle is quite high on my shoulder, which it typical for an HP standing stance. The reason is that it gets the sights up to your eye level instead of dropping your head over, which would throw off your balance. You can also see that my left elbow is against my ribcage and my hand is right up at the delta ring. My rifle balances right there, so left arm is transferring the weight of the rifle directly down...I could stand like that all day. One thing you will notice is that my little finger is somewhat covering the ejection port so I have to watch this while shooting standing and "roll" the rifle out to make sure its clear after each shot. Other hand positions can lessen this problem, but go with what works best for your shooting. If you look closely, you'll see that there's an S bend in my body, with my right shoulder beyond (further to the rear) my right hip. I only recently started doing that but it made a big improvement on the stability of my standing positon. Note how that in this positon, I keep my head back on the stock...it is more comfortable and I get a more accurate view of the sights. My right hand grips the pistol grip firmly, but not enough to affect a good trigger pull.
     

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    Last edited: Jan 6, 2004
  2. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Standing feet

    On this one, do whatever feels comfortable. What I do is cradle the rifle and close my eyes, and pay attention to my balance. I move my feet till I am not swaying and I'm happy with my stance. Then I'll check my NPA and adjust my feet again to make sure that my NPA is dead on. Then I'll close my eyes again and adjust again. Back and forth between the two will get you to a point where both meet and you'll be in the best position you can be. After that, never move your feet till all your shooting is done.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2003
  3. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Standing from front.

    In this one you can tell that there is some backbend going on and that the rifle is actually centered over my hips so that its weight isn't pulling me forward.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2003
  4. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Sitting from front.

    In the sitting pics the first thing that grabs my attention is something I don't like. I have a big cro-magnon ridge above my eyes and bushy eyebrows, so you can see that I'm actually raising my eyebrows in this shot. If I do my part I can shoot in the very high 190's from this position (out of 200) so its hard for me to change it, even though I don't like the eyebrow thing. My You will see that the position is very low and compact and that is tremendously important. My face is actually against my left shoulder. (Shoulders in this position are "curled" forward for a more compact stance). In this and the next pic you can see that the "flat" of the elbow is the contact point with the knee and that both elbows are in front of the knees (toward target) to resist recoil. In this position, the sling should be pretty tight so the gun hardly moves in recoil. A primary thing about the sling is that it is literally holding the rifle up...neither arm is holding the rifle up in any of these pics! If you are holding the gun up or in a position even just a little your scores will suffer tremendosly.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 17, 2003
  5. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Sitting from left side.
     

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  6. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Sitting from right.
     

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  7. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Hand and sling position for prone.


    This is just a detail of how the sling looks and you're seeing me index my hand in my "prone spot." I have some spots marked with black tape for my thumb positions.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2003
  8. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Prone from right side.

    Here's the thing that freaks some folks out about my position. The rifle is REALLY low in my shoulder. No, I don't know why I like it that way. My sling is somewhat taught (not enough to make my arm go numb in 20 minutes though) but its taught enough that when I put my rifle into my shoulder, its really locked in there. Then I push the butt down so that it really gets locked in and so its where I want it in my shoulder. Low, but it works for me. The pistol grip doesn't touch the ground (against the rules anyway).
     

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2003
  9. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Prone from above.

    Here you can see that I'm pretty straight behind the gun. Some guys can go farther, but I can't. This doesn't matter as much with the AR as it did with the M1A as being straight lessened the recoil effect on your positon. You can also see how my left elbow is under or beyond the underside of the rifle. From what I can see when I'm actually behind the gun, it feels like my left elbow is actually on the right side of the gun, actually, but just a hair. You can also see that my right arm is very close in. Some guys do this and others don't. It keeps me really solid.
     

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  10. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Prone seen from rear.

    Again you can see how in-line I am behind the gun. Depending on the day I will maybe hike my leg up more for a tighter position...especially for rapids. The collar of the coat is just goofed up, not intentional, but I imagine it could keep hot brass off my back better this way.
     

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  11. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Prone from front.
     

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  12. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Make sure your scope is close enough that you can easily see through it without moving. This shot also shows how to rest the rifle between shots and while waiting for pit service.
     

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  13. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    Cool pics, Steve! Did you get any 'man with a gun' police visits? :D

    Thanks for clearing up all the confusion. SHould I seek professional instruction nonetheless?
     
  14. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    No "man with a gun" visits so far. I hope these pics make some sense. If anyone has questions, I have a few more pics that will hopefully help and I will most likely wind up doing some commentary on these as I go.


    Professional help? Well, aside from the military teams, there aren't any real "professionals" but there is nothing wrong with getting some coaching. It (coaching) improved my game tremendously, and it still does. Now I am a coach too. What comes around goes around, I guess.
     
  15. Matt1911

    Matt1911 Member

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    Steve,
    Thanks!!These help alot.Things i've read are a lot clearer now.
     
  16. Matt1911

    Matt1911 Member

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    If you get a chance to post those other photos,and commentary,please do!
     
  17. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Here's one more pic to show how you shouldn't be holding the rifle up and how it should be pressed into your shoulder by sling pressure.



    I hope folks don't mind me putting this thread up. I would have loved it when I got started, as all I had were the Jim Owens books. The dark, poor quality, black and white images did nothing for my understanding of things. This would have helped me, so I hope it helps you guys.


    Please tell me if you want a pic of something specific.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2003
  18. Matt1911

    Matt1911 Member

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    Steve,
    I wanted to thank you for taking the time to post this.You've probably saved me a truck load of ammo,and time,fiquring this out on my own.
    There is a hp clinic Mar.30,and the first event Apr.4 near here.This has really helped getting over the "i have no idea what i'm doing"butterflies. I also am "starting" to see what all the gear is for. Reguardless of my scores,I think i am really going to enjoy this.
    The wife and kids are enjoying this too. They love seeing my fat rear trying to get off the living room floor after the sitting position!!:D
     
  19. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    BTW, folks, please read anything that JC121 posts here. He's a great shooter and a great friend. He's also been an excellent coach for me. I'm just running around in his footsteps right now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2003
  20. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    Awesome thread Steve.

    Speaking of coaching, you posted to a thread I started on TFL a long time ago about long range rifle shooting using iron sights. The information in your post helped my shooting tremendously.

    Keep up the good work! :D
     
  21. Frohickey

    Frohickey Member

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    If I don't know better, I could swear that the tiny .224 hole on the barrel looks like a 5 inch gun from the USS Missouri when its pointed at me. :what:
     
  22. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Ahh, but you should be afraid of the "prone from front." Your head is still a viable target at 600 yards with that one! ;)
     
  23. Jon Coppenbarger

    Jon Coppenbarger Member

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    steve:
    very nice photo's and explanation of the photo's.

    also thank you for the kind words.
    is there a way to save the thread and photo's for reference here?

    the positions he has are very solid and are text book for the highpower sport and photo's speak a thousand words!





    thanks jon
     
  24. 280PLUS

    280PLUS Member

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    steve...

    it's hard to see the position of your legs in the sitting pix, are they crossed?

    do they do any shooting from the kneeling position?

    thanx for the post!

    m
     
  25. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Yes, legs are crossed "indian" style. There are other acceptable siting positions, but this is the most stable and therefore what you will maily see on the line.

    You may kneel in the siting portion of the match, but it is very unstable by comparison. There is no kneeling only portion of the match.
     
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