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HK P7 vs. Glock 23

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by mm6mm6, Feb 4, 2010.

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  1. mm6mm6

    mm6mm6 Member

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    I've been shooting my Glock 23 with a 9mm Lone Wolf barrel in "off-duty" combat matches in the league I shoot in. We average 10 matches for a final score. We can shoot 15 matches total and drop our five worst scores.

    The Glock has been terrific with the 9mm barrel:

    [​IMG]

    Last night I shot my last 3 matches (#'s 13, 14, and 15). I decided to use my A-Grade German trade-in Heckler & Koch P7 9mm. I had wanted one of these guns since the early 1980's when I first read about them.

    [​IMG]

    I improved my score by a lot with all three matches I fired. I was 20 points higher with the P7 than with the Glock. This is not a rip on Glock, but more of a tip of the hat to the HK P7. The matches are under time constraint and the gun is drawn from a covered position on the hip (you have to have a jacket or sweatshirt or vest covering the gun as if it was truly concealed). Magazine changes are included in the timed firing (6 shots, reload, fire 6 more). I find the heel magazine release on the P7 to be a non-issue compared to a button mag release. I noticed that I was firing my second string of 6 shots before the other 4 shooters on the line did. The squeeze cocking lever is very fast for releasing the slide during a reload.

    Boy does the P7 get hot though! The first 50 round match was no problem. The second 50 round match was slightly uncomfortable due to the heat. The third string of 50 rounds in a row was enough to make me think my jacket might melt from contacting the gun. I did put three bandaids on my trigger finger to prevent my finger from getting burned where it contacted the super heated frame.

    Anyway, I love my P7. It sure improved my scores!
     
  2. usp9

    usp9 Member

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    Sounds like you need another P7.

    What factor made your score better...accuracy, speed, both?
     
  3. Hkonboard

    Hkonboard Member

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    The P7 is extremely accurate and I love that damn trigger.
     
  4. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    I shoot some informal competitions with the P7 and it is hands down the easiest to shoot accurately. The only drawback is the reload but you can get pretty darn quick with practice.
     
  5. berettaprofessor

    berettaprofessor Member

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    There's a reason the P7 was designed and you just found it. And I need to keep track of your post so I can reference it the next time somebody asks "whats so great about a P7?"
     
  6. mm6mm6

    mm6mm6 Member

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    You're right berettaprofessor!

    Fixed barrel.
    Excellent sights, pushed as far apart as possible, with a large rear sight notch.
    Outstanding trigger.
    Fantastic ergonomics.
    Low felt recoil due to high hand grip and low mass slide.
     
  7. Starcheck55

    Starcheck55 Member

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    I love my P7...that being said I'd love for HK to put out a new version that had a polymer frame, hydraulic buffer (like the K3 model), M8 styled trigger guard and heat shield, factory night sights, and an optional threaded barrel.

    of course they'd only sell it to the military so I won't hold my breath.
     
  8. StarDust1

    StarDust1 Member

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    My understanding of the P7 was that the issue with the thing was the squeeze cocking mechanism and UNINTENDED discharges of the pistol resulting from it.
    NJSP dumped them almost immediately!(like within a year) Aside from that, the ones I've handled(but never fired)were beautifully manufactured.
     
  9. John Wayne

    John Wayne Member

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    How does the squeeze-cocking lever result in unintended discharges?
     
  10. StarDust1

    StarDust1 Member

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    It results from lack of training, and particularly a lack of keeping the finger off of the trigger unless you intend to fire the thing.
    NJSP officers had great difficulty in deploying the squeeze cocking front strap without also depressing the trigger!
     
  11. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Good grief!

    If they are too stupid or poorly trained to use a P7 without shooting something accidently, god forbid they replaced them with Glocks!

    rc
     
  12. StarDust1

    StarDust1 Member

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    I believe it was a well publicized series of events, I don't have the data in front of me, but they got rid of them almost as soon as they began issuing them, perhaps as long as a couple of years...
     
  13. Dave85

    Dave85 Member

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    I have heard reports of reports of unintended discharges at the onset, and suppose it could easily be true. I don't know if the frequency would have been different that that among operators of DA/SA autos. The common issue, as I understand it, was officers attempting to reholster with their finger still on the trigger of a gun in SA mode. I think this was a mistake seen in increasing numbers as agencies shifted from DA revolvers to autos; many (or most) of which, at the time, were DA/SA. Remember, the NJSP put these into service back in 1983, at a time when most officers were accustomed to revolvers. Proper training seems to have taken care of the problem because the New Jersey Troopers carried them from 1983 until 2001.

    As far as dumping out of them in less than a year, you are probably thinking of the S&W 99. In 2000-2001, NJSP attempted to replace the aging P7M8s then in service with the S&W pistols, but encountered jamming issues. They recalled all of the ones issued and went back to the P7s before replacing them with the SIG P228.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
  14. Quiet

    Quiet Member

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    I love my P7M8, by far the most accurate 9x19mm pistol I own.


    In regards to the NJSP's P7M8s, Dave85 is correct.
     
  15. silversport

    silversport Member

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    Dave85 is right...they carried them a LONG time and loved them...very expensive...now I might be forgettign but wasn't it they for whom HK designed the M13 version???...anyway...no problems with the P7 unless you don't study the manual of arms...
    Bill
     
  16. Dave85

    Dave85 Member

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    I don't know if they intended to offer it to the NJSP, but it was not adopted by them. It was submitted to the XM9 trials in 1983.
     
  17. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    The P7 is an accurate and interesting pistol, but I just can't get into using novelty items for self defense.
     
  18. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    Sigh. If its a novelty item, then I guess I am guilty for believing in it for self defense. Its my second most carried pistol behind my CZ PCR and one of my favorites for range work. Its the only pistol I have two of and not because they get hot, its just that good.
     
  19. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    Yes, I agree they are nice pistols, I just don't want to use a gun with an unusual manual of arms and design for self defense. If you are comfortable with it, go for it! I didn't call your wife ugly, just gave my opinion about the P7. P7 owners are always so touchy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  20. Dave85

    Dave85 Member

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    We do sometimes get a bit touchy. I'll admit that. Maybe, though, It has to do with constantly fielding insults based on myth and misconception. Insults such as calling it a "novelty item." It is not a novelty item. The P7 is a serious gun for serious uses, just like other service pistols. It has served a number of agencies very well in that capacity.

    The manual of arms is not all that unusual. You squeeze the grip, you shoot the gun. Period. No different than any other pistol. That is one of the very cool things about it. You don't have to do anything differently, the gun uses your normal actions to operate. It is an elegant design.

    We have all chosen guns in which we trust, using methods and processes in which we have confidence. We don't have to agree with others' choices or methods, but we can disagree without insult. To insult someone's gun is to insult their reasoning and intelligence. You get that enough, and you're going to get touchy.
     
  21. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    I can think of no other pistol like it.


    Is any agency still using it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  22. Dave85

    Dave85 Member

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    And yet it still works essentially just like any other pistol. Squeeze the grip, pull the trigger.

    Not that I know of. Economic realities and changing technology has caused production to cease. Is any agency still using the Colt Trooper? Does that make it a novelty item?
     
  23. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    The thread was comparing the G23 v. P7. The Colt Trooper would undoubtedly work for self defense, but to some degree at this time it would be novelty item. They are no longer being produced, spare parts are difficult to find, and its not too easy to find someone to work on them. You can find a Glock Armorer just about anywhere, and can buy replacement parts from lots of places.

    When I say the P7 is a novelty item, I would say so because of these very things. The economic realties and changing technology you speak of are reasons the P7 is a novelty item. That is not to say, however, that they are bad guns, or won't still kill people.
     
  24. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    A P7 is the one HK I have a real interest in buying.
     
  25. meef

    meef Member

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    I had a Glock 23, and it was okay. Never could really warm up to it though I tried.

    I sold it.

    I have a P7 and I really, really like it.

    It gets carried and it ain't gonna get sold.

    What a beautiful piece of machinery.
     
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