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HK UPS-C v. Colt Commander

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Sproles, Apr 13, 2003.

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HK USP-C v. Colt Commander

  1. HK USP-C .45

    29 vote(s)
    34.5%
  2. Colt COmmander .45

    45 vote(s)
    53.6%
  3. HK UPS-C in another caliber (prob .40)

    10 vote(s)
    11.9%
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  1. Sproles

    Sproles Member

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    Alright-

    Help me! I currently have a dilemma that I need to solve. I have a Kahr K9 Elite that I am going to trade or sell. I have a friend of mine that is willing to sell me his Colt Commander with alot of upgrades and it is in GREAT shape for $700. I have shot it and it is great. BUT...there is this nagging sensation inside of me that has always wanted a UPS-C.

    What should I do? The reason that I like the COlt is how well I shoot that type of trigger set up. How does the UPS comapre to the Commander style trigger?

    What would you do if you had the choice. This is going to be my primary weapon for both home and personal preotection.

    Please advise.

    David
     
  2. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    I've got my money where my keyboard is - I own, as my carry gun, the H&K USP compact in .40. Variant 2, with ambidextrous operating lever. I've had it for about 5 years, no problems of any kind ever, with both factory & handloaded ammo. I had the ambi lever retro-fitted last year, fast turn around & at phone quoted price.

    I very much like the idea of being able to carry cocked & locked with the hammer drop that the Colt doesn't have. As for the trigger, it's not as good as some of my 1911 pattern guns, but it certainly isn't bad. And then again, I didn't buy it for a target gun.
    900F
     
  3. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

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    It doesn't. ;)

    Other than that, it's a fine (if somewhat chunky) pistola.
     
  4. Marko Kloos

    Marko Kloos Moderator Emeritus

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    The Commander has the superior trigger by far, while the USPc has the edge in reliability. I'd feel well armed with either one. If you are comfortable with 1911s and cocked & locked carry, and that Commander is proven reliable, get the Commander. If you're more comfortable with DA/SA triggers and like the option of both cocked & locked and Condition 2 carry, get the USPc. Either way, you can't really make a bad choice between those two guns.
     
  5. FJC

    FJC Member

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    You can get a deal NOW on a great Colt Commander that you've shot, you like, and you feel is a deal...


    ...You can always buy the UPS later, but will this deal always be available?
     
  6. Cruiser

    Cruiser Member

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    Commander all the way. USP's are junk. As a USP armorer for our dept SWAT team, I have direct experience with 20 USP40's, and have seen nothing but problems. Many times, they fail to fire in DA. We're scrapping our USP's and going with Glock 21's instead.

    I hear (but haven't confirmed) WA State Patrol is switching from Beretta 92F to USP's even though they've experienced a number of problems with the USP.
     
  7. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    U-S-P. :D

    Anyway, I'd take the Commander. If I was to get a HK I'd hold out for one of their cooler jobs the the P9S or P7.
     
  8. uglymofo

    uglymofo Member

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    Agree with pretty much everything said here; the Colt has the potential of having a finely-tuned trigger and out-of-the-box are generally quite a bit better than the HK. Operationally, it can be as reliable as an HK UPSc. The USP 45c recoils the same as a Commander, so nothing gained there. For CCW, I'd take the Colt; at least, the USP 45c feels like a boxcar on the hip, and is harder to hide.

    No one's mentioned ergonomics. The thumb safety works with the same motion (as opposed to an S&W, DE, or Walther PPK), but the mag release is different from the 1911. HK mag release pushes up/down, 1911's push into the grip. Of course, the big difference is hammer up or hammer down.
     
  9. care-less

    care-less member

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    Sproles-- the key words to me are " with a lot of upgrades". That is the only way the commander matches up to a USPc , out of the box. USPc is by far the safer pistol to carry a round chambered in: ( I know I will catch hell for that); and the HK can be carried cocked and locked like the Colt, and has just as good a trigger; IMHO:) I have sold my Colts. I still love them, but the USPc gets my vote.
     
  10. benewton

    benewton Member

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    Care-less has it right!

    The 1911 was great in it's time, but time has moved on.
     
  11. Boats

    Boats member

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    Thanks for the laugh. Somehow that one never seems to wear out though it should.

    Had both and have no uberplastik now. The USP is fine for what it is, but what it is certainly ain't as good as a 1911 of any quality. For the record, there is no HK trigger, on a USP, that approaches a 1911 trigger. There are only HK shooters who keep having to tell themselves this to maintain a sense that they didn't overpay for what is essentially the equivalent of an XD.:cool:
     
  12. care-less

    care-less member

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    :what: You are seriously going to compare an HK to an XD!! I need a drink:) The 1911 is century old technology. Why not get a Colt model P, the latest in high tech; everyone is using them:barf:
     
  13. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    A USP is just a less imaginative version of what Glock already did. :neener:
     
  14. HKcenterMass

    HKcenterMass Member

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    want it to go bang everytime? then get the HK. I dont know how people arrive at the conclusion that the HK is junk... i like colts too, but there is no way it can endure the torture that an HK can. get the USP for 699, incredibly accurate. if the trigger bothers you, get that taken care of, but after 500 rounds, the trigger is fine. its "uber engineered"
     
  15. Boats

    Boats member

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    Of course the vast majority of HK owners only torture their pistols in sordid, small hour Red Dawn fantasies.

    And with that we arrive at the truth of the matter. Yes one can favorably compare an XD to an HK. There is nothing objectively better about the USP, and certainly nothing about its trigger, even with the LEM, that puts it over on the Croation pistol. Nothing that is but the higher poseur value. Goodnaturedly I point you in the direction of the incomparable Skunk for further details.

    High tech that adds nothing to what came before is wasted R&D.
     
  16. KMKeller

    KMKeller Member

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    Goes bang every time out of the box with excellent accuracy firing all types of ammo - HK
    Goes bang after minor tune up from a quality smith - 1911
    Aftermarket tune up parts to customize and make personal - 1911
    SA Trigger - 1911
    DA/SA comfort factor - HK
    Durability - Toss up, slight edge to HK... maybe.

    Owned both, paid more for my 1911, had to have it modified to feed ammo. HK USP .45c, still going strong, never had a single issue with it. Swapped the 1911 to a gent who uses ball ammo in competition... runs like a swiss watch.

    12 of one, a dozen of another. I'm not a 1911 bigot like boats, nor am I an HK zealot. I went with what worked best for me and provided me with the best comfort level when protecting my family. My choice was the HK. I can't trust a weapon that's failed.
     
  17. care-less

    care-less member

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    :what: I am truly speechless; I need another drink!
     
  18. Marko Kloos

    Marko Kloos Moderator Emeritus

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    In all fairness, and all the "tactical poseur pistol" bashing aside, the HK does have some engineering improvements over the 1911, if you look at both pistols objectively and not through religious glasses.

    The HK has a captured and very effective recoil buffer system. It also does away with the swing link arrangement, which is one of the few weaknesses of the 1911 design. The HK utilizes a linkless Peters Stahl-like arrangement instead. The trigger module on the HK is replaceable, and the HK can be configured in a much more flexible fashion. Nothing beats the fantastic SA trigger on a 1911, but not everybody is comfortable with Condition 1 carry. The HK is much more readily tailored to shooter preferences: manual safety, DAO, cocked-and-locked carry, decocker, or a half dozen other combinations. The benefits of polymer for frame design are now grudgingly conceded even by many purists, and field-stripping of a USP is undeniably easier than stripping a 1911.

    So yes, it does add a few things. Like it or not, but new doesn't necessarily mean "no improvement" by default. The 1911 has some great positive attributes, but it's not the ultimate handgun design upon which no improvement is possible.
     
  19. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    Which one is "better" depends on what factors you consider important.

    Your "more rounds in the mag" is my "crappy ergonomics."
    Your "safer DA trigger" is my "crappy trigger pull."
    Your "modern polymer construction" is my "limp wrist jam facilitator."
    Your "interchangeable trigger modules" are my "all still worse than a 1911 trigger modules."
    Your "rust resistant finish" is my "uglier than bluing finish."
    Your "lighter weight" is my "bulkier and harder to conceal."
    Your "HK cachet" is my "raise the price to impress tactical poseurs."

    (and vice-versa)

    My only suggestion is to think about what actually matters to you, and get a gun that has those things.
     
  20. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    Tactical poser? Me? :D

    Between the two, I'd pick a USP. Between a USP and a semi-custom 1911, I'd pick the semi-custom.
     
  21. rick_reno

    rick_reno member

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    HK vs. Colt Commander

    I've got both - I carry the H&K compact in 45 acp. I've carried for about three years and have 5000-6000 rounds thru it. It is the only 45 I own - and I also have Glock, Sig, Colt, Kimber - that has never failed. I've shot handloads and various factory loads thru all those 45's and every one but the H&K has had at least one malfunction. This is the most reliable semi-auto I own. The trigger action isn't really comparable on the H&K and Colts, they're very different. Greyguns does a trigger job on them that is reportedly very good - I haven't tried one but those that have say good things about them. If I were getting into a H&K today I'd try one his trigger jobs, I've shot mine enough that I'm used to it. You can find Greyguns at http://www.mainstreet-stores.com/cg...4271dc0a8018906dc+EN/catalogs/123535&2D163762
     
  22. M1911

    M1911 Member

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    I've got two HK USPc -- in .40 and .45. I've got two Kimber Compacts -- one a steel frame the other an aluminum frame. I carry the Kimbers. The USPs live in the safe. YMMV.
     
  23. 10-Ring

    10-Ring Member

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    For out box reliablity, go w/ the USPc.
     
  24. Oleg Volk

    Oleg Volk Moderator Emeritus

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    Shot them side-by-side recently.

    USPc is more comfortabel to fire, easier to maintain, feeds any ammo.
    Colt had a better SA trigger.

    Practical accuracy about identical.
     
  25. Trisha

    Trisha Member

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    I own both, and I carry either without hesitation. My Commander has been reworked twice, having seen 31,000 rounds, and it emerges from the hands of a loving gunsmith in superb condition. My HK USPc has seen 23,000 rounds (full-power to +P+ defensive) and has never malfunctioned. Accuracy is too close to reliably compare between the two, coming in at under two inches at 20 yards (3-shot groups, modified Weaver).

    The Commander trigger is the lovely 3.5lb perfect glass rod.
    The HK isn't in the same league.
    The Commander has seen over twice the original purchase price in repairs and tuning to date - and still looks "factory."
    The HK has needed nothing, and shows no wear save for very slight external barrel burnishing.
    Commander mags cost $12.
    HK USPc mags cost $40.

    I would recommend you buy what has the best ergonomics for you, and then what you simply personally love the most. Your attachment to the firearm will result in more attention to cleaning and care, as well as reward you a bit more when you master is on the range.

    Have fun!
    Trisha
     
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