home defence caliber questions

[mljdeckard]

(Standard disclaimer, the handgun is what you use to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have put down in the first place. Get a shotgun.)

Look at it this way. If it's a house gun, it's not something she has to conceal or carry all day. Why worry about the size?

Small handguns are harder to shoot than big ones. The tendency is to steer women towards little guns, because they are less intimidating. But smaller guns have less mass to soak up recoil, and shorter sight radius, making them more difficult to aim. If you want to make it easy for her to shoot, try a 4" or even 6" K-frame, and let her shoot .38s through it. she can train up to .357 loads.

 

[easyg]

To be honest, the .380 really isn't that great of a round for quickly stopping human aggressors.

I recommend an auto that fits her hand well and in 9mm, .45ACP, .40S&W, or .357Sig.

I don't recommend a revolver.

In my experience, most women of average female size simply don't have the finger and hand strength needed for quick and accurate double-action shooting while using a revolver.

It's also been my experience that most new shooters, regardless of gender, tend to be much more accurate learning to shoot an auto than a revolver.

 

[Bohemus]

7,65 in suitable package ;-)

 

[Cosmoline]

she has shot my .243 rifle pretty accurately so maybe, she can get accurate enough for the normal home defense distances

I have to ask, if she's already familiar with the .243 why waste time with some plinker handgun for home defense?

Small handguns are harder to shoot than big ones. The tendency is to steer women towards little guns, because they are less intimidating. But smaller guns have less mass to soak up recoil, and shorter sight radius, making them more difficult to aim.

Very true. I still can't figure out why so many will suggest some small semi or J frame wheelgun for a novice woman, or any novice. These are really difficult firearms to master. The sight radius is tiny, and the sights are often difficult to see. For home defense you'd at least want a full size handgun with some nice sights on it and enough heft to absorb the recoil.

 

[Zerodefect]

This Walther PK380?


Big gun for a less than 9mm round. That should be a piece of cake to shoot. Deosn't Walther have a 9mm version of this gun?

 

[ttheel]

I nearly bought my wife a .380 for defense last year. She just could not get comfortable with semi's. She had a very hard time racking the slide on most of them and she had to think to much about what to do. I ended up buying a S&W model 60 357 Magnum(3 inch barrel) for her. She is very comfortable with it because all you do is pull the trigger and it goes bang. She actually keeps it loaded with .38 Special +P's and .38's is all she has shot through it at this point. She is pretty darn good with it for such a new shooter.

 

[NMGonzo]

My wimpy gf can shoot my bersa straight and true ... with no other training than "Point that thing that way and grip it like this" (not literaly)

 

[TexasBill]

I commend your choice. I own a Walther PK380 and can say it's one of the best .380s on the market, especially for the price. Because of its design, it's a bit easier to rack the slide on the PK380, an objection that comes up with straight blowback pistols. It shoots very well and is happy to feed most anything after a few rounds to break it in (I had one FTF my first time out and that was it: not a single problem since.

The PK380, while larger than the "postage-stamp" pistols that are currently the rage, is much smaller than the typical full-size automatic. It will fit quite comfortably in a pocket or any woman's purse except one of those little opera thingies.

Fully loaded with nine 82-grain Remington Golden Sabers it weighs 22 ounces. The extra size and weight make the PK380 a very pleasant gun to shoot, which means practice is more enjoyable and more likely to happen. It also means the gun is back on target faster for follow-up shots than a pistol with more significant recoil.

The .380 is more than an adequate round at typical SD distances. No, it won't stop a raging rhino but nine rounds will definitely get someone's attention.

Two quirks: First, the PK380 does not have a slide release lever. When you insert a fresh magazine, pull back on the slide and release it. Second, a special takedown key is required for stripping. Don't lose it. I believe Smith & Wesson does have spares now. The Walther Part No. is 2769581.

 

[labhound]

If she shoots the .380 fine then go with it. I own two .380's, Beretta Cheetah 85 and CZ 83. Both on the large size but this dampen the perceived recoil. The Beretta Cheetah 85 is my wife's and she likes it better than any gun we have (9mm's, .38, and .380's). Don't get caught up in "caliber" wars. Remember these guns have more than one shot so you don't necessarily need large caliber, just something she can shoot comfortably, accurately and often!

 

[mljdeckard]

That's great. If you know you will get more than one shot.

 

[wrs840]

Can someone tell me why ".380" and "large-ish format" belong in the same thought? I like .380 in a pocket pistol, but there are great moderately-sized auto choices in 9mm that women find comfortable in the hand and comfortable in recoil, like BHPs or 5904s... Why a "big" format for a "little" round?

Les

 

[AOK]

Obviously we don't know much about your wife or why you chose the gun that you guys did. However, I'm curious if you guys considered her trying out a 20 gauge shotgun for home defense? Throw in a #4 buckshot and you have yourself one heck of a powerful and effective home defense gun. While a 12 gauge can be a little much for the average lady, MANY are more than capable of handling a 20 gauge.

 

[LiveLife]

I still can't figure out why so many will suggest some small semi or J frame wheelgun for a novice woman, or any novice. These are really difficult firearms to master. The sight radius is tiny, and the sights are often difficult to see.

So the girlfriend/wife won't make the boyfriend/hubby look bad.

 

[mnhntr]

So the girlfriend/wife won't make the boyfriend/hubby look bad.

Pretty easy to figure out really. The J frame revolvers are very easy to operate, have a better choice in calibers than the 380. It is laughable to think about the short sight radius in a self defense handgun when most of these situations take place in a distance of 10ft or less, and last long enough to get 2-3 rds off. They are not hard to master and in fact easier for new shooters over any semi-auto.

 

[Gunfighter123]

Well , I've been shot twice and I have never said or have I ever heard ANYONE say " gee I sure wish I was shot with a bigger bullet" !!!!

My main choice for SD in a semi-auto is 10mm and .45acp , in a revolver its 10mm and .357 mag. ----------- BUT , will a .380 stop/kill someone ??? YES !!!!

I'd say try to rent a .22rf auto for her first range trip and after 50 rds. then turn her loose with the .380.

 

[Hawthorne2k]

Can someone tell me why ".380" and "large-ish format" belong in the same thought? I like .380 in a pocket pistol, but there are great moderately-sized auto choices in 9mm that women find comfortable in the hand and comfortable in recoil, like BHPs or 5904s... Why a "big" format for a "little" round?

Newton's Third Law of Motion. A bigger gun will suck up more of the recoil, allowing for a faster and more accurate 2nd, (or 3rd, or 4th, or 5th...) shot.

And put me down in the "If she can use it and hit what she aims at, then it's great for her" column on this issue. A gun that she's comfortable with and can shoot well is far more useful than one that one that she'll not want to trust her life to if/when she needs it.

The only drawback I could see is that .380ACP ammo is still scarce (at least around here) so getting in regular practice time could be a challenge.

 

[LiveLife]

I've been shot twice and I have never said or have I ever heard ANYONE say " gee I sure wish I was shot with a bigger bullet" !!!!

Mind us asking WHY you were shot?

 

[mljdeckard]

At the same time, you've never heard someone who just dropped a bad guy with a .44 say; "Wow, that was over-doing it. I didn't really mean to hurt him THAT badly. Nest time I'll use a .32."

 

[wrs840]

Newton's Third Law of Motion. A bigger gun will suck up more of the recoil...

Yes, I get that. I just always thought of the .380 as a "acceptable compromise" round, well suited to "necessary compromise" (small) formats. If the choice of a larger format is acceptable, I never understood chambering it for .380 when fine 9's are available in comfortable medium formats.

Les

 

[benzy2]

Yes let her shoot the .44. That is the ticket. Heck why not skip straight to a 500 S&W? I mean its not like we could ever over-do it right? I think a lot of people get caught up over a specific number and that number is all that matters. Be it penetration depth, expansion size, pre-expansion diameter, whatever. I will tell you this. I have seen a few women looking for a HD pistol turn their heads up at little .380s as well as full size 9mms. I'm sure these ladies would have been turned off by snub nose .38s as well had they shot them. A fairly large .380 would have fit the bill perfect in these situations. While I would rather a .45 with two mags of jhp sitting in the night stand, I wouldn't feel any more scared if a .380 was all I could handle. Shoot what works for you and the rest doesn't matter.

 

[easyg]

Shoot what works for you and the rest doesn't matter.

I really don't like this kind of sentiment.....it ignores the reality of the situation.

"The rest" does matter.
And it matters alot.

There's just no getting around the fact that the .380 has a dismal record for quickly stopping human aggressors.
It's just not that great of a self defense round.
And I think that it's almost criminal to tell someone "don't worry, the .380 is just fine for self defense".
The 9mm has a better track record for self defense and it's really not much more difficult to shoot in a medium to full-sized pistol.
So for a home-defense non-carry gun, I just don't see how anyone can recommend a .380 in good conscience.

 

[harmon rabb]

They do? I guess if your a sissy! My better half has no problem with standard38s or +p ammo. Maybe you should work on your limp wrist

i'm no limp wristed sissy, and don't mind heavy recoil, but if you try to say that the recoil of 38spl from a j-frame isn't fairly substantial compared to, say, 9mm out of a full sized gun, you're just a liar.

 

[easyg]

i'm no limp wristed sissy, and don't mind heavy recoil, but if you try to say that the recoil of 38spl from a j-frame isn't fairly substantial compared to, say, 9mm out of a full sized gun, you're just a liar.

Quote not directed to me, but I could not resist....


The recoil of a .38 j-frame is really not very substantial at all....especially when shooting standard pressure ammo from one of the all steel models.
In fact, it's quite tame.
And while the recoil from a 9mm full-sized pistol is less, it's not so much less that it would make a real difference.

It is true that +P ammo can be rough from an aluminum framed Airweight snubbie.


I think the double-action revolver trigger pull is the real difficulty when shooting a snubbie....

With a snub-nose, you don't have a long heavy barrel to help keep on target.

If you watch those with weak fingers and hands (especially small women) you'll notice that a lot of them have a hard time with a heavy double-action trigger, and they will often let a short-barrel revolver climb skyward off target during their trigger-pull.

 

[gordy]

Well, I am sorry to say that you missed this one, What does she like?
You as a man buy her a gun that you think she will like. or that you say she should have.
My wife likes a k frame m65 3inch with +p+ 38. she can shoot it VERY well and is going to shoot it well when she has to.
A buddy of mine. His wife likes and shoots a glock 19 very well. If your wife needed a car would you put her in a f350 or a hummer? would you let her drive lots of cars and trucks? firearms are the same. the gun you picked kicks like a small mule and bites the hand that holds it. ask her if she woulkd like to try other guns to find what she likes and you and her will be much happier. and she will feel safe.

 

[wrs840]

The recoil of a .38 j-frame is really not very substantial at all....especially when shooting standard pressure ammo from one of the all steel models.
In fact, it's quite tame.
And while the recoil from a 9mm full-sized pistol is less, it's not so much less that it would make a real difference.

My wife would beg to differ. Like I said earlier, she will shoot my 442 (std or +P... they're only 10% different after all), but does not find it "pleasant". A BHP or 5904 she "does" find quite enjoyable to shoot. That said, I found my friend's wife's Walther PPS to be a real "pain in the thumb" to shoot. The extended beavertail and short grip makes it pretty awful, IMO.

Les