Home defense long gun - which and why

[unrealtrip]

A shotgun is the hands down home defense weapon. A handgun is second.

ALL of those tacticool looking guns are out. Why? Because when the prosecutor holds up an "assault rifle" that looks scary, you may find the jury ruling in favor of the deceased POS that was in your house instead of you.

A plain jane shotgun is the best bet. Hell, some of them are even called the HD aka Home Defense model.

 

[Cosmoline]

I'm actually intrigued by the M-1 carbine as a home defense firearm, esp. after those great gel test results recently posted here.

Personally, I use a Mosin with handloads.

Shotgun. The only firearm which will blow a man off of his feet.

Let's not get carried away. Only a punt gun would do something like that.

 

[Glockman17366]

Well, 12 gauge here too...same reasons as the other folks

 

[High Planes Drifter]

Shotgun. The only firearm which will blow a man off of his feet.

No it wont.


As for the original question, go with whatever you practice more with. Thats my advise. I voted handgun. I find it easier to use an AR, AK, or a handgun your farmiliar with. Personally I just find shotguns harder to use than carbines and handguns.

 

[rantingredneck]

I voted 12 Gauge Mossberg in the poll, but would prefer an 870. I keep mine loaded with Rem light recoil 00 buck. I've patterned it and put a box of buckshot or two (and occasionally slugs) through it at various ranges once every other month or so. I also deer and dove hunt with this gun (different barrels) so I get practice handling and shooting it throughout the year. I would trust my life to it without question. It sits in my safe at night with the door unlocked and open for ready access.

On the shelf beside my bed (up high where the 2 year old can't reach) sits a loaded Ruger P90 or P89 at night. The other sits on a shelf in the safe right above the 870. One of the two goes with me during the day, the other stays at home in the safe.

Also in the safe is a Ruger PC9. That covers everything from the average intruder to the slobbering zombie horde.

 

[TimboKhan]

As a whole, I tend to agree with the shotgun as the perfect HD tool. Just don't fall prey to the internet and gunshop commandos who tell you not to aim. Yes, you do. Perhaps it doesn't need to be as perfect as a pistol or rifle, but you do need to aim.

That said, I have a chinese sks imported by Polytech called the "hunter". It is a slightly cut down (no bayonet) and now rests in a Tapco T-6 stock. I feel very confident in the rifle and my ability with it, and it is my go-to HD rifle. That combined with a pistol by my bed, a pistol in the kitchen cabinet and another in my closet pretty much round out my HD options.

 

[rkh]

For close-range work, the shotgun is the superior weapon.

Don't think of it as a low capacity pump gun, view it instead as a really hot 32 ACP tricked out to give you 8, 9-12 round bursts.

 

[Tokugawa]

George, regarding the M1- it would do a fine job if the assailants are armored. Or if there is a car with a bunch of thugs hosing your house down. It depends a lot on where a person lives.
Serious reccomendation here- handgun. It can be concealed so you do not cause dirty shorts with every false alarm, and one hand can be free to attend to other tasks, open door, press dial 911, flashlight, etc.

 

[MHBushmaster]

unrealtrip

A shotgun is the hands down home defense weapon. A handgun is second.

ALL of those tacticool looking guns are out. Why? Because when the prosecutor holds up an "assault rifle" that looks scary, you may find the jury ruling in favor of the deceased POS that was in your house instead of you.

A plain jane shotgun is the best bet. Hell, some of them are even called the HD aka Home Defense model
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Your presume to much: Handguns are third place buckaroo: they are inefficient at the job of stopping attackers, their main assest is concealability, but in your home concealability is near pointless. Handguns shoot rather large diameter bullets at relatively slow speeds. "But a .45 will knock someone down even if you hit them in the arm", that is B.S. and it is proven not to be the case.
Shotguns have their place and niche, home defense is not their strongest suite, but will work if loaded out appropriately (buckshot). The reason shotguns are prevelant in many peoples answers to this thread is because most folks own a shotgun, not as many own a shorter barreled carbine. If someone chooses a shotgun over their carbine, if it is not a training/comfortability issue, then they are making a poor choice in going with the shotgun, this bucks decades of popular thought, but think about it, are out guys in Iraq using shotguns while going room to room, clearing buildings?

Next, any defense lawyer worth his salt can pound that "assault weapon" claim down the toilet. And if the prosecutor is going to go after you for killing a home intruder, you are in the same same boat irregardless of the tool that you used. Show me some case law that supports your claim that a Zumbo gun or a shotgun got a defendent off the hook from a prosecutor whereas a similar defendent was put in the slammer for using an "assualt weapon". I'll save you some time, it doesn't exist.
For home defense and personal defense, use the best tool you are trained with, and quit being whiney about how others are going to perceive your actions. You have to first survive the encounter to be judged...."rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6". And don't spew stuff about handguns being second place right after shotguns for self defense:banghead: Guess we should just collect the M16's, M4's, M14's, etc and issue Mossberg 500's.
And a shotgun thought of as a tricked out .32ACP, yeah, great self defense load right there:banghead:

 

[Cosmoline]

An M1 Garand? Are you kidding? Who voted to use a .30-06 for a home defense gun? Do you live next to the Huns or something?

You can control what bullets you load in, and how fast they are going. Why is it people assume every rifle must fire AP ball?

 

[Chuck R.]

Your presume to much: Handguns are third place buckaroo: they are inefficient at the job of stopping attackers, their main assest is concealability, but in your home concealability is near pointless. Handguns shoot rather large diameter bullets at relatively slow speeds. "But a .45 will knock someone down even if you hit them in the arm", that is B.S. and it is proven not to be the case.
Shotguns have their place and niche, home defense is not their strongest suite, but will work if loaded out appropriately (buckshot). The reason shotguns are prevelant in many peoples answers to this thread is because most folks own a shotgun, not as many own a shorter barreled carbine. If someone chooses a shotgun over their carbine, if it is not a training/comfortability issue, then they are making a poor choice in going with the shotgun, this bucks decades of popular thought, but think about it, are out guys in Iraq using shotguns while going room to room, clearing buildings?

Wow, like to come off a little strong don’t we “Buckaroo”?

I have both, train on both, and still prefer a shotgun. It’s got something to do with 4000 lbs of energy compared to 1500 or so. For me it comes down to; at household distances which gun stands a greater chance of a 1 shot incapacitation.

Comparing military operations/Iraq to home defense is quite a stretch. I do not expect to have to engage multiple attackers, and I don’t need the effective range flexibility IN MY HOUSE that a carbine offers.

I dunno, maybe the guys in Iraq are using carbines because they don’t feel like carrying around an indoor gun, and an outdoor gun.

Chuck

 

[BigSoundRacing]

no sound in the world as distinctive as the sound of a pump shotgun

Be safe, BSR

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

The reason shotguns are prevelant in many peoples answers to this thread is because most folks own a shotgun, not as many own a shorter barreled carbine. If someone chooses a shotgun over their carbine, if it is not a training/comfortability issue, then they are making a poor choice in going with the shotgun, this bucks decades of popular thought, but think about it, are out guys in Iraq using shotguns while going room to room, clearing buildings?

I can see a short barreled AR with a suppressor being a good choice, but without a suppressor wouldn't you completely destroy your night vision and hearing with the first shot?
I thought the main reason most .mil and LEO teams are using 5.56 as opposed to shotguns or subguns for clearing is the threat of multiple enemies wearing body armor.

 

[heypete]

If someone chooses a shotgun over their carbine, if it is not a training/comfortability issue, then they are making a poor choice in going with the shotgun, this bucks decades of popular thought, but think about it, are out guys in Iraq using shotguns while going room to room, clearing buildings?

That's because the soldiers in Iraq are issued M16s/M4s. A few are issued shotguns, but they're mainly used for breaching the door, not as a primary weapon.

In situations that the military is likely to face (large number of bad guys, confined space, possible hostages/innocent bystanders) a shotgun is more of a liability due to its increased recoil, slower recovery time, limited ammo capacity, and lack of very precise aiming ability (yes, at indoor ranges shot patterns don't spread much, but in a hostage situation that's still a bad thing as you might wing an innocent).

At situations commonly found in most home defense situations (between 1-3 bad guys, lightly armed, and main goal is theft of valuables rather than killing the homeowners), a shotgun would be perfectly suitable.

Just because the military does something doesn't mean it's the right thing for civilians to do. Private citizens have a much greater flexibility in the type of guns and ammo we have at our disposal, and can make those decisions for ourselves based on our own specific situations. In my apartment, I'd much rather use buckshot than rifle ammo due to the population density in the building.

 

[The Canuck]

If by home defense you mean that the goblins have got past your front door, the 12ga. for sure. The psychological effect of a shotgun blast will rattle even the most whacked druggie. The shotgun can be deployed with a wide variety of loads, everything from birdshot right up to 1oz. slugs and even bean-bags and lock-busters if you know the right people (also depends on the legality of such rounds in your political jurisdiction). It is relatively easy to use and is ubiquitous in Western Society.

If you are defending your home in a state of Emergency the whole thing shifts to rifles and carbines pretty quick. In this case it is a draw between the AK and the AR. The reason being you will want to consider projection of force and magazine capacity. The AK tends to leap out for me here as the AR has a shorty barrel.

 

[Afy]

You want a long gun... I presume to stop BG's as far away as possible...

.338 Lapua..in a Sako TRG 42 with a Nightforce scope.. high magnification.

1100 yards is the radius of the circle I want to be minimally safe in.

 

[Lashlarue]

Double barreled 12ga loaded with 00 buck. " Shotgun, extreme close range, double-O. Starkey was hit four times, first two cut him in half.
Sgt. Joe Friday: The second two turned him into a crowd.

 

[Tokugawa]

You guys are expecting the threat to come in a big package labeled "THREAT".
No use to have a concealed weapon at home? Try this- A car , that seems a little shifty pulls in your drive, you go out to see what is going on with your shotgun, rifle etc. They are are lost and looking for directions. The next car that pulls in has blue lights on top.
Repeat scenario. A knock at the door, two people who appear innocuous, but it sure would be nice to have a gun handy just in case. So what do you do with the rifle? How do you respond?
Get real here folks, a handgun is the primary, the long gun a backup, because MOST of the time, the threat will be a FALSE alarm, and you will become known to the cops as the crazy guy who pulled a gun on the Mormon kids or the lost yuppies or the neighbors new gardener.
Yeah, sure, when a lowrider pulls up and three gangers jump out with AK's, sure, grab the long gun- but most of the time, the question of whether there is a threat is going to be somewhat ambiguous- and if you go around with a visible rifle you are going to become familiar with the wrong side of the cops.

 

[unrealtrip]

MHBushmaster: Relax brother, this was just a poll asking for opinions, that is mine and I'm sticking to it.

I didn't think my post was whiney in any way, just what I think. From a technical standpoint, I believe the cylinder choke shotgun is a superior short range weapon. Sure it needs to be aimed, like any gun, but the amount of energy it dumps into said bad guy is far more substantial than any .223. Mine holds 7+1 and that's plenty for home defense. It's not a gun I'd tote into a lasting gunfight, but then again if I'm outgunned with 8rnds of 00 buck *in my house* then I'm already in over my head.

I think it has been mentioned already by Chuck R., but you can't seriously compare tactical room clearing scenarios in war-torn Iraq to a home invasion. Without going into every possible scenario that could happen, the swiss army knife of weapons, in my mind the shotgun, is what I want in my hands when someone is coming through a window, back door, etc. If, God forbid, I actually have to fire at an intruder, it *will* put him down; that boom will not only wake up all of my neighbors, but if he has a partner he will think twice about following his now dead or dying friend as he realizes this is not the soft target they thought it was.

I have a .308, I also have a .45ACP. My wife is comfortable with both. What do I do if something goes bump in the night? First off it just woke me up, so I continue to listen intently. Then I let my German Shepherd loose, while she's investigating I grab the loaded shotgun and chamber a round, hand my wife the phone and my .45, then go investigate. If the dog didn't scare off or maim the bad guy, he gets one loud verbal warning and then a chest-full of buck. I would have a solid defense case even here in the People's Republik of California.

I listed the handgun as my second for the reasons mentioned by Tokugawa and as a backup for the shotgun. Also, I know an attorney can play down the AW image, but when someone is holding up an AR15 to a jury, it sure will look a lot more menacing than a Remington 870 Home Defense shotgun purchased at the local Big 5 Sporting Goods. Because when they see the image below, the prosecutor won't have to do much to make his case.

 

[Chuck R.]

You guys are expecting the threat to come in a big package labeled "THREAT".
No use to have a concealed weapon at home? Try this- A car , that seems a little shifty pulls in your drive, you go out to see what is going on with your shotgun, rifle etc. They are are lost and looking for directions. The next car that pulls in has blue lights on top.
Repeat scenario. A knock at the door, two people who appear innocuous, but it sure would be nice to have a gun handy just in case. So what do you do with the rifle? How do you respond?
Get real here folks, a handgun is the primary, the long gun a backup, because MOST of the time, the threat will be a FALSE alarm, and you will become known to the cops as the crazy guy who pulled a gun on the Mormon kids or the lost yuppies or the neighbors new gardener.
Yeah, sure, when a lowrider pulls up and three gangers jump out with AK's, sure, grab the long gun- but most of the time, the question of whether there is a threat is going to be somewhat ambiguous- and if you go around with a visible rifle you are going to become familiar with the wrong side of the cops.
__________________
tokugawa

I see your point, but none of those circumstances qualify as what I consider to be HD.

You also assume (and you know how that goes) that the guys recommending a long-gun, don't have a handgun. In my case I have both at ready secured in V-Line gun cases. So here's how I'd respond to your scenarios:

1. Strange car: Grab CCW gun go out and great with gun concealed. If it's really spooky I'm not going outdoors to investigate chit, watch from my widow, dial 911 while caressing my Benelli. So a long gun will suffice.

2. Knock on door late at night: Concealed carry gun, IF I decide to open door. Again, if really spooky long gun will suffice while we talk through the door.

3. Crash bang sound of someone breaking in: Benelli M1S90, 7 rounds of #1 buck, M3X Tactical light.

4. Drunken/stoned knucklehead trying to kick in my door at 0200: Benelli M1S90, 7 rounds of #1 buck, M3X Tactical light.

There is no one weapon that covers all possibilities, but I'd rather error on the side of weapon effectiveness. Also, nothing says I must exit my "castle" there's nothing "out there" that can't be replaced, so conceal-ability is pretty moot in HD.

If I could only have one, I'd still probably go with the long-gun because numbers 1 & 2 are not identified as a threat, while 3 & 4 are. Once identified as a threat, I'm not worried about concealment in the least.

Chuck

 

[john paul]

put a heavy bird shot in the chamber and buck in the magazine. across a normal living room the bird shot will stop just about anything. then you have buckshot for your follow ups.

 

[JShirley]

I think it has been mentioned already by Chuck R., but you can't seriously compare tactical room clearing scenarios in war-torn Iraq to a home invasion.

True...the M4-style carbine will be even more effective when used by a defender and loaded with expanding ammunition.

 

[heypete]

put a heavy bird shot in the chamber and buck in the magazine. across a normal living room the bird shot will stop just about anything. then you have buckshot for your follow ups.

Oh? The Box O Truth says otherwise.

I quote:

Birdshot does not excessively penetrate drywall walls. But it does not penetrate deeply enough to reach a bad guy's vital organs. Birdshot makes a nasty but shallow wound. It is not a good Stopper.

Use Birdshot for little birds. Use 00 Buckshot for bad guys.

 

[Gewehr98]

That's interesting.

True...the M4-style carbine will be even more effective when used by a defender and loaded with expanding ammunition.

Based on which test vs. buckshot? Box 'o Truth?

 

[SSN Vet]

I thought my .357 with a 6-1/2" barrel was a long gun.....