Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by .357MagTaurus, Apr 29, 2009.
Feel free to post or not post photos of your Home defense Shotgun. Thanks
Let's just give the anti's more ammunition to attack our gun rights by parading all of our shotguns to the world on the internet.
I am reticent to do what you ask due to the fact that there seems to be such an emphasis towards "big and bad", "mean", "tacticool", ad nauseum!
ANY shotgun in ANY form is "big","bad" and dangerous.
They aren't toys and IMHO, we are taking the low road if we conduct ourselves as a bunch of crazed zealots with such a display.
I am all for people owning whatever gun they want without ANY restrictions.
I am not for creating a circus that,to me, undermines our right to keep and bare arms.
If I am wrong and offend anyone,I am NOT sorry due to the fact that posts like the one being asked are a bit over the top and lack
the level of class that this sight is known for!
END OF RANT!
To the OP: I would post some pics, but Im just feeling too tired and lazy at this point. Although, I might be hesitant to refer to any of my weapons using the adjectives you mentioned. However, I do appreciate your enthusiasm.
To the others: Its just a shame that the things of which you speak should even pose any concern. Sign of the times I guess.
Youth, H&R Topper, 20 ga, single shot, bone stock, as it come from the factory.
Total length is 36", the plain barrel is 22" and is fixed modified choke, and it has the factory recoil pad.
Now I was born into a hi-risk environment, and the guns I used, include, not limited to:
-Bone Stock Ithaca 37 Police
-Ithaca 37 in 20 ga
-H&R Topper 20 ga single shot ,youth.
-Winchester Model 12 Police, and Riot.
-Winchester 1300, 12 and 20 bore
-Winchester Super X Model 1
-Beretta 303, in 12 and 20 bore
-Remington 1100, in 12 and 20 bore
-Remington 870 , Police, Riot, 12 ga, and 20 bore.
While my elephants are not as numerous, nor as big as some others, mine are real to me, and I own them.
I started with handguns at age 3, rifles at age 4, and shotguns at age 5.
Staying with shotguns...
I competed and participated in Skeet, Live Pigeon, Columbaire, 5 Stand, Sporting Clays and "two gun" meaning there was no 3 Gun , or IDPA, or IPSC, and me and mine were doing serious shotgun defensive games.
These games were set up by "mentors and elders" and these include our body guards.
Folks familiar with the initials OSS, and those in Military, and Law Enforcement.
Not all were from the USA, such as those "too" familiar with "unpleasantness" in Rhodesia, and South Africa.
I really did burst the muzzle of a 870, and stock.
Ya'll call these training and stages, we called them "lessons" and "set ups".
We replicated those situations folks had actually been in. Folks doing what I did.
Hot range, 3 rules of gun safety ( three would later be split to make rule four) and Big Boy Rules.
My instructions were "survive the sumbitch"
My Gov't Model of 1911 was loaded for me, and so was one mag. USGI 7 round, mags.
It was common to have a dummy ctg or not have a full mag.
I was supposed to "run the gun" and survive.
The shotgun, was loaded as well.
No start buzzers, nor timers. Not once that I have been shot at, has their been a start buzzer.
Tip: Ain't no start buzzers in the real world
My start, was live gunfire...
I only had one live round in the mag in the 1911, and one live round in the spare mag.
I had two live rounds in the shotgun...
I never heard anyone yell "stop" , instead my instructions were to "survive" so I used the muzzle of a fairly new 870 on the steel targets, and the stock to buttstroke, other steels.
I made it to where I was supposed to.
I busted a shotgun doing it, but it is only a tool, and no tool is any better than user of said tool.
Mentors felt sorta bad about me busting a shotgun, but really felt proud.
I stayed in the fight, and "run what I brung".
I was visiting with a buddy of mine, a moderator here on THR, and we got to talking how much we shot ...doing some things we both are familiar with.
It was no big deal for me to shoot 30,000 shotgun shells in a year.
50,000 was not either.
I put around 300,000 rounds through a Win SX1.
Name it, I did it with that gun.
I have some high round counts on some other shotguns too.
I stopped a vehicle shooting at me and mine, with a single shot 20 ga, when very young.
Mentors said "stop the threat".
Looters were coming in to take equipment after a tornado hit.
I had the best presentation.
Folks thought I was running a pump gun.
Still I stopped that threat, and vehicles left.
Vehicles with folks shooting at me and mine.
During Unrests, firebombs were being tossed toward porches and roofs and...
It was dark, power was out, just ambient light from lanterns , or candles or whatever.
The threat was firebombs, catching houses on fire.
I was felling firebombs before they could reach houses.
So were mentors.
Bone stock guns, and the shotgun I was using, did not have a front bead, on purpose.
Nor did some shotguns other mentors were using.
Gun fit to shooter, correct basic fundamentals...
Focus on the target, not the equipment. Will Fennell.
No, I will not share some more serous events.
But I am typing ain't I ? So I must have survived.
It ain't the damn shotgun , it is the person using the shotgun.
Applicable to any firearm.
I am trouble's worst nightmare, not the shotgun between my hands.
I am the weapon, the world is my toolbox.
Can't buy it, gotta earn it.
Now, I am just a older fella and don't give a rip. Which for some trouble, is their worst nightmare.
No need to parade effective home defense weapons as the "Biggest, baddest etc etc etc..." that is such a juvenile attitude.
A Rem 870 is one example of a effective HD weapon and there are others besides that one will do the task well.
A 20 pound stone thrown Scottish Style will take down the intruder pernamently as well. It's all how you apply deadly force properly in a Castle Doctrine State.
Yep, gotta side with the others here. Reason being, they are right. This is not a trivial thing. What you proudly parade here could one day come back and bite you hard on the ass in court. Think about it. You display your badass HD "shotty" here, then have to use it that night. You've shot and paralyzed a guy or killed him.
When the ineveitable lawsuit from him or his family comes around, guess who's pictures and comments are gonna show up in his/their lawyer's hands?
Don't think for a second they'll never find it here. Your comments and pics will be found and paraded before a jury in a court of law. I doubt there will be a hung jury in your case. Say goodbye to everything you own and welcome to your new lifestyle. Abject poverty.
While your enthusiasm is positive, I feel it's quite misdirected with this thread.
Allright folks, there is no need to criticize the creator of this topic too much is there? I mean, he is simply asking to see pics of folks' home defense shotguns. Whether or not you all are interested in such things doesn't mean that others are not. However, I must say that I do disagree completely with what many of the others have said.
Lets begin with 'jlv08' and I quote "ANY shotgun in ANY form is 'big', 'bad' and dangerous", while that might be somewhat true (though I would say that it simply isn't as we can look at the Winchester Model 36 and see that it is not 'Big' nor is it 'Bad' though it might be slightly dangerous to an exposed pinky toe or something of the sort) it simply isn't the point... The topic creator had a certain idea in mind when he posted this, he was wanting to see different peoples ideas of 'Home Defense' shotguns and I have NEVER met anyone who has decided that it be best to use a 9mm shotgun (which is quite popular in European Countries for Varmin) as a home defense tool. Clearly there are more effective shotguns (be it 'big' or 'bad' or whatever else that you want to call it) that would be more suitable for home defense shotguns.
Also, the idea of "over the top" is, again, simply a matter of opinion. I can think of many reasons that the Semi Auto / Pump Action Spas -12, 12 ga. shotgun, would be a more effective self defense / home defense shotgun than many 'standard' (non-over the top) shotguns out there, while to you the Spas-12 might be 'over the top' it isn't to everyone.... The topic creator is simply asking to see peoples home defense shotguns, perhaps he would like ideas for his own home defense shotgun, luckily we live in country that we are able to possess such things, and I personally see no problem with showing someone who is interested a picture of what some may use to defend our lives, our families lives and our property with.
Now then, on to King Ghidora, again.... and I quote "When it comes to multi rails & pistol grips & combat lights I don't want a gun that looks like a cross between Buck Rogers and a pin ball machine". - While the latter part of this statement is indeed rather amusing I must say that ea. of the accessories that you mentioned in the beginning part of the statement (i.e. multi-rails, pistol grips and combat lights) can indeed play a very important and effective roll in self / home defense situations. While you might not what your gun to "look like a cross between" blah, blah, blah... it really wouldn't matter what said gun looked like if you were in a situation in which an intruder was breaking into your house after cutting all electricity and you couldn't see who you were pointing the firearm at (be it your daughter or the intruder) you wouldn't know because I guess you were to worried about what your gun "looked like" (I didn't realize that home defense shotguns were to be entered in best looking, bone stock, shotguns contests) when you could actually see it and didnt put a combat light on it.
There is a reason that SWAT teams and tactical teams aren't taking down drug cartels with Browning BT-99's people and there is also a reason that tactical teams use such things as Combat Lights, Lasers, Vertical Grips and Quad Rails and that is because they work. There are more tactically orientated weapons for both offensive and DEFENSIVE situations. The topic creator is simply alluding to such weapons.
One more quote than I promise I will be done with this unbelievably long post..... "People might die at the other end of that gun and I don't want it to look like I enjoyed doing it" - my simple and quick response to this would be that it is much better them than you, they shouldn't have been breaking into your house to rape, steal, rob, kill, mutilate, etc... then they wouldn't have that problem and regardless of how much 'stuff' you have on your weapon when you use it it is much better to be prepared than you find yourself on the opposing end of your opponents weapon. It won't look "like 'you' had fun doing it" it will look like you were prepared for any and all situations.
Said preparedness just might be what saves the other guys life next time, or prevents him from discharging his weapon into an innocent. It is awfully hard to tell who is the intruder and who is an innocent if you can't see your potential target.
P.S. Sorry so long.
here ya go.
I think some of the posters are saying they do not want accessories on their shotguns whose sole genuine purpose would be to look kewl. Yeah, putting a "breaching" muzzle on your HD piece is not morally wrong, but most of use would like to concentrate on form following function.
Remington 870 police 12 ga. shotgun equipped w/rifle sights and a authentic police walnut stock set. I also have a Remington supercell recoil pad installed which is really nice.
welcome to THR. Hopefully you joined to learn the difference between responsible firearms ownership, defense and sporting uses for firearms vs. how firearms are portrayed in the movies.
The best HD shotgun would not be based on looks, but on how often the owner has trained with it. There are people here who have fired hundreds of thousands of rounds (has Dave McCracken gone over a milion?) through their stock Remingtons, Mossbergs, etc. and these are the guys/girls that I'd fear if I was a BG.
The only part of a HD shotgun any BGs should see is the muzzle and maybe a flash.
I hope you never have to find out the hard way, but you shouldn't be doing this since it only alerts BGs to where you are.
If this in reference to "racking a shotgun", I have some personal experience with this.
Bad Guys have racked a shotgun, and I and mine owned them. Not only did we know where they were, we knew how many, and even knew what kind of shotgun they had.
I am dead serious. Come into where I am or some others I know, and rack that shotgun.
I am not going to be afraid, nor will others. We have too many shells downrange to be "skeered" of a shotgun being racked.
Oh, since it was legal to do so, I was not the only one that removed the safety of a shotgun, on purpose, when competing.
I was also raised on Hot Ranges, and 3 Rules of Gun Safety, so I and mine had NO problem having a shotgun, in a home or business setting, loaded, one in the chamber, and no safety.
BGs would only hear one sound, and that would be the sound of incoming to stop their threat.
A 1300, 870, 1100, 303...etc, works the same way with or without a safety.
Not recommended for new folks , or most folks.
There are those of us, that have and can handle this.
Safety is between the ears, not something on a damn firearm.
Re: Million rounds.
Yeah, I am a member of that club.
Bottom line, we will always have new folks cycle in, and I made a promise to mentors, and to myself, to pass forward as passed to me.
Oh I have had my fun with firearms, including shotguns, and I pass this forward as well.
Still I take damn serious, passing forward what is true and correct.
The Great Equipment Race, and Buying Skill & Targets ain't it.
Come on in, rack that bad boy, and I own you. You mess with that light wrong, and I own you.
No. I have never attended a known gun school.
My lessons were private or in house.
They do mirror what Awerbuck, Clint Smith, Cain and others do teach.
I run mine with Pachmayer Decelerators.
Then again I go back to learning to use a Chrome Flashlight, with the Intermittent switch, with firearms, including shotguns.
Heck, I still wish they made flashlights with the intermittent switch...to me, based on how I was mentored, that intermittent switch is a serious tool in the toolbox of staying safe.
I Apologize for the Adjectives......
I was merely trying to create some interest in a photo based thread of Our Home Defense Shotguns. Much like the threads you find in the Revolver section i.e." Revolver thread of all time" How much interest would there be if I had said " Drag out your old dusty 12 gauges and place the rusty side down, brush away the cobwebs and post a photo." I guess that somewhere in between would have been correct, for instance " Home defense Shotguns,Please show Us yours". Sometimes I get too excited, Sorry. I do very well understand the seriousness of any Firearm, regardless of How "Bad" it looks. A .22 cal. can kill you. We face a more serious threat overall, and that is losing our right to bear arms. The Anti -gun people would be thrilled to see us lose those rights. They are very patient and will work dilengently to ban one type at a time, until you are left holding a slingshot. If you think I am wrong, Look how they have removed God from everything. The norm is now "Freedom from Religion" instead of" Freedom of Religion" Enough rambling. Again "Sorry if I upset anyone". Feel free to post your Home Defense Shotgun photos or to not post them. Still a Free Country, for now. We all know what the 2nd Amendment is, but let us not forget the 1st. Thanks for keeping me on the Straight and Narrow.
Now that's a good thread title! I would have gone with that.
No reason to modify...
Simple and effective.
Notice, it ain't a 12, either. I don't need no stinkin' 12.
Welcome to the site and read and learn as much as you can.
There are folks here that are very informed and who possess great knowledge and experience regarding firearms.
Again. Welcome to THR.
Give me a few days and I will post something. It's pretty awful because most of the time the shotties are in thier Shotgun Grabbers against the wall ready at a moment;s notice.
.357 no hard feelings. Just that certain presentations strike me the wrong way. Give me a few days and I'll show you some imagery. We happen to have alot going on at the moment in the real world.
My Saiga 12 Semi Auto with 12 round mag I think will do the job.. I can unload 12 rounds quite quickly and have another mag loaded in like 2 seconds. Seeing, that I might be freaked out during a home invasion or if they are attacked, I just felt that having an accurate shotgun that can unload a lot of lead quick would be a better option, then one of those manual pump action shot guns or double barrels. If I miss, it may be the last chance I have with one of those, not with my Saiga.
im suprised the saiga isnt more popular
its a cross between the 2 most highly toted fire arms
the 12 gauge and the ak 47
The 12 gauge cartridge rocks, and so does the AK-47, but then again, brownies and lemonade are both great. I challenge you to try them together however.
In other words, the Saiga 12 gauge simply hasn't been around long enough for people to develop a trust in it on a level anywhere near something like a 12 gauge pump-action shotgun, or a X39 AK.
There also isn't much reason NOT to have a kitted and fitted shotgun if you want one.
Honestly I don't see the need for a SxS or only wooden furniture if you want a EBS(hotgun).
I'm not trying to look like I want to try my HD shotgun, but I also feel if I'm USING my HD shotgun, things have gone to garbage already. I'll run a light source on my rails thanks. I'll have rails because I find they help. I'll run rifle sights on my shotgun because I actually enjoy aiming. I'll have a collapsable stock because it makes storage easier and can be tailored to LOP for armour/clothing/user.
My shotgun Is big and bad. It sure as hell isn't small and farting rainbows.
These are guns we are talking about here. They are lethal force. Why not call it big and bad. It almost sounds like a call saying it's ok to remove black shotguns like they are desperately trying with black rifles.
Looking at other people's equipment can also open up some avenues you hadn't thought of. I was dead set on a Surefire frontend for my 870, now I run rails. A better solution IMHO. I wouldn't have thought of it if I hadn't seen it on someone else's gun.
I'm not glorifying it or enjoying HD too much (although i don't see anything wrong with that) I also appreciate looking at other people's weapons.
I don't see why someone's request to see the weapons has gotten everyone so riled up. Most other forums have dedicated topics about pictures.
People ARE proud of their purchases or their projects. I'm humble about my skill and my ability to fight with a shotgun, not about my shotgun.
Sounds like some people need to break out the tinfoil hats.
I did not make my remarks about the type of guns he wanted to see, I made my remarks about how he was asking them to be presented regarding use for home defense.
If you lived here in America, you might be able to understand why we, as gun owners try, to present ourselves in the best way we can.
Some of our posters are new gun owners and you can bet that we , at this forum, will do everything in our power to enlightened and promote the proper and safe use of firearms.
By the way, welcome!
I use my HD shotgun all the time, know it intimately. It's felled a pot full of dove these last two seasons since I've been using it and a few teal. There is no reason you can't use the gun you know best in the field for home defense. Before I had that Spartan, I used my old 28" Sarasqueta 12 gauge SxS fixed choked mod/full. God only knows how much game that old shotgun has taken. It was my waterfowl gun, dove gun, anything I wanted to shoot with a shotgun for about a dozen years. It was my ONLY shotgun during that time as I'd sold my old Wingmaster 20 gauge in college when I needed money for fees and had no real other choice.
I worked my way through and didn't owe a dime to student loans when I graduated, but I had to sacrifice to do it. It's near impossible to do anymore, but back then, state schools, it was possible if tough for a po boy with working poor parents. I had bought the old SxS cheap and, well, I just liked it too much to sacrifice. LOL But, it was my do all shotgun for many years. I don't use it anymore, but I hold on to it. It's kinda beat up anyway, but I have memories tied up in that old gun that come back to me when I pick it up, memories in the field. The Spartan is more maneuverable and has taken its place as dove gun and self defense gun. My Winchester auto, my Mossberg 500 pump, and my H&R 10 gauge have taken its place in the marshes and grain fields for waterfowl. I don't have a dedicated tacticool home defense gun, but I don't really feel the need. I use what I use in the field. I know SxSs, been hunting with 'em for nearly 40 years off and on. It's simple, it points naturally and fast, it's deadly, and it's an extension of my body when I pick it up.
I find nothing wrong with having a Tacticool HD shotgun. I can argue that an all black shotgun is less likely to give off your position in the dark. A picatinny rail with a light and maybe even a laser can help anyone out in quick target identification and acquisition. And a telescoping stock and pistol grip can help in tight confines of a home.
That being said, I just have a side saddle on the receiver and a forend grip from CAA that comes with rails and my light attached to it on the weak side to depress the momentary with my thumb. It's all black because that was what was on sale at the time. I don't care for a pistol grip and AR stock.
For those fainting at the thought of glorifying a tactical shotgun should really go preach in the AR forums about people reasoning to build an AR for HD.
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