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Home invaders pose as police and take guns

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Min, Mar 16, 2004.

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  1. Min

    Min Member

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    http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/031504_local_homeinvasion.html

     
  2. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    Brings up the old question ... how in fact does anyone know it's ''the real deal'' or not?? There's not much time to decide. Get it wrong and you're probably dog meat ... either way.

    So - LEO's .. how does Joe Average know, one way or the other ... ?
     
  3. Dave R

    Dave R Member

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    Scarey stuff. I hope there are not many copycats of this MO. If so, that could make life very difficult for LEOs and for homeowners.
     
  4. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    If you live in the city, before you open the door, call 911 and ask the dispatch op if you should have a unit or three at that address or if the people about to break in your front door posing as cops are real.

    Do not automatically open the front door because someone knocks and says POLICE! OPEN UP! The 20-30 second delay could save your life, tho' it might anger a real cop.

    If you really truly have done nothing wrong and are talking to one if his dispatch operators to find out whats what for the 30 second delay, explain to him that the one phone call might have just kept him a little safer (like its gonna come up in conversation).

    That time frame also allows you to get your piece of mind in hand if needed.
     
  5. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    Baba - being the inveterate pessimist I am ... I am not so sure the ''buffer time'' needed to manage a successful 911 call would work. I am imagining something more akin to a ''no knock'' ... and how in heck anyone could know then whether real or bogus. Things would happen awful quick.:(
     
  6. RED-DOG 40

    RED-DOG 40 Member

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  7. sturmruger

    sturmruger Member

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    That is scary. I imagine they would get you for murder if you shot a cop that was coming into your house. It makes me scared to think about the SWAT teams that kick down the wrong door. They would be in for quite a suprise if they kicked in my door. Most likely I would end up dead. I don't have an MP5.
     
  8. jsalcedo

    jsalcedo Member

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    Who says they weren't real police?

    "Asbestos underwear on"
     
  9. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA Member

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    It screws up everything for legal LEOS.

    Dressed how? In your normal uniform, or all dressed in SWAT gear? The article doesn't say.
     
  10. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA Member

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    "Who says they weren't real police?"


    :cuss: pathetic
     
  11. The Real Hawkeye

    The Real Hawkeye member

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    Yeah, and it's so hard to get a SWAT get up, and a windbreaker that says POLICE, or FBI. Hell, they sell this stuff on street stands in D.C.
     
  12. Selfdfenz

    Selfdfenz Member

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    Kind of a twist on the blue light bandit is it not?
    Hate to admit it but I watch COPS once in a while.

    From the "OPEN UP, POLICE"

    to the time the door leaves the hinges

    to the "GET ON THE FLOOR...."

    no body has time to look to see if they "look" real or not.


    I guess I could stay up all night looking out that little telescope in the door and have a little more time to eye-ball them but........

    S-

    PS...between the bad guys and not knowing if the police are really the police, living in something made of reinforced concrete with a heavy steel door doesn't seem nearly as tin foil as it did a few years back.
     
  13. The Real Hawkeye

    The Real Hawkeye member

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    Damned right. Even if it gives you a couple of minutes to look out the window and see if there are any squad cars out there, it could save your life. If the door goes down fast, I'm dead meat, because I'm "going tactical" if that happens. Being a law abiding citizen, I assume that anyone breaking my door down is a bad guy, and means to do serious harm to me and mine.
     
  14. Langenator

    Langenator Member

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    Damn...the Supreme Court actually touched on the issue tangentially in a decision. The case involved an LEO getting evidence by breaking and entering. The decision pondered what if the occupant had been home, and had a gun, and had shot the officer breaking in. The Justice who wrote the decision (don't remember who) said he wouldn't want to be the DA who tried to bring charges in that hypothetical situation.

    The basic rule of using lethal force in self defense: did you feel that your life and/or the lives of others were in danger? If I know I haven't done anything wrong, and all of a sudden there's guys with guns breaking down the door, even if they are screaming "POLICE!" at the top of their lungs, it's game on. It'd probably end up with me and a cop or two dead, and my wife pretty damn rich after she sued the city for wrongful death.
     
  15. jsalcedo

    jsalcedo Member

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  16. FNFiveSeven

    FNFiveSeven Member

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    If the cops show up at my door, I would be greatly relieved to discover that they were only criminals in disguise.
     
  17. clubsoda22

    clubsoda22 member

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    That not only screwed stuff up for cops, but volunteer firefighters who utilize bluelights. When a news story comes out about a police impersonator robbing/raping motorists on the highway, a lot of volunteer firefighters/emt's get pulled over when some do-gooder spots the light on their dash and calls the cops. Not fun for anyone. People who legitimately impersonate athority figures should be shot.

    As for no-knock warrants, there's no way you wouldn't get a murder charge out of shooting a bunch of cops coming into your home. 24/7 the news media would be showing pictures of the cops playing with puppies or children and they'd all use that one picture of you that you posted on the "Mall Ninja" thread. They'd make you out to be satan and you couldn't get a fair trial anywhere on earth.

    If i were a defence lawyer, i'd probably work it like this. If you were actually comitting a crime, then you had reason to believe that the people coming in your window were real cops, in which case you are outta luck. If you have a clean record and had done nothing wrong, and the police meaning to bust the guy on 123 maple street as opposed to 123 maple drive might as well be criminals posing as cops. If you've done nothing wrong and can't think of a reason why the police are busting in your window, then there's a possible defence, but it's unlikely that you'd win because you would have been well deamonized before the trial.

    If you want to know if they are real cops, ask to see their identification. Most criminals don't think past the badge...which is worthless as far as identification goes.
     
  18. WilderBill

    WilderBill Member

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    I'm starting to like that bunker idea myself.

    Somehow it reminds me of a movie I saw long ago:

    SWAT comes down a short hallway and slams battering ram into front door,
    turns out the front door is made like a vault and the impact causes another vault door to close behind them.

    A full minute passes and a quiet vioce on an intercom says " Yes, may I help you?"

    Cops:" Hey, we got a warrent, let us in!"

    Light comes on, homeowner: "Lemme see it."

    Cops: "It's in the car."

    Homeowner: "I'll get back to you in the morning."
    Light goes out.

    ROFLMAO!
     
  19. QuarterBoreGunner

    QuarterBoreGunner Member

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    I have absolutely nothing to base this on, as there was almost 'zero' real information in that news piece, but I would not be all suprised if the robbery was an 'inside' job. Friends of the 19 yo, who tells them, 'yeah just push your way in- here's where all the guns are, and you'll probably have to hit me a couple times to make it look good.'

    I have no idea why, but this smells like it.
     
  20. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    clubsoda .. if it was the dreaded ''no knock'' then firstly I doubt anyone would give you the time of day - let alone a look at a badge or warrant .... seems those events happen too fast.

    Also might well mean, substitute ''demonized'' for ''dead''!!

    Then you'd only be ''tried'' ..... ''in absentia''.
     
  21. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Proves it. Only the police should have guns.
     
  22. Abenaki

    Abenaki Member

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    "Who says they weren't real police?"

    I say it's a legit question!
    It's not like there has never been a dirty badge!

    Abenaki
     
  23. Blue Line

    Blue Line Member

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    if your dead there won't be a trial -
     
  24. another okie

    another okie Member

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    Here in Oklahoma a case just finished up that may shed some light on what would happen in these cases, though naturally it has some twists.

    The state troopers had good information that a man was making meth at his rural home. They applied for and received a no-knock warrant, and chose to serve it at night. The man had a locked gate with a sign that said "trespassers will be shot" or something similar. The troopers knocked down the gate and drove towards the home across the pasture, with unmarked vehicles in the lead. The man opened fire, killing one trooper and wounding others. He was captured and charged with murder, and pled self-defense. The first trial ended in a hung jury. In the second trial he was convicted of manslaughter or some other charge less than murder. Now this guy was a scumbag, so don't think I'm defending him, but to serve a no-knock, at night, in an unmarked vehicle, against a suspect known to be armed, doesn't seem very smart.

    At any rate, this case was widely debated around here. Several of the troopers were quite angry that the jury would not convict of murder. There were also letters to the editor defending the shooter. I can't remember whether he was actually convicted of any drug charges.
     
  25. mpthole

    mpthole Member

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    :rolleyes:
    Yeah, I'm sure that'll slow them down.


    Scenario A (with badguys posing as cops)
    BG: Door comes flying off its hinges. "Get down on the floor NOW, you m$%^@$% f$#%$#@%$ p#@# of @#$@!!!"
    You: "Ahh, excuse me, but can I see some identification...?"
    BG: Pistol whips you into submission.
    --end of story--


    Scenario B (with actual cops)
    Cops: Door comes flying off its hinges. "Get down on the floor NOW, you m$%^@$% f$#%$#@%$ p#@# of s#$@!!!"
    You: "Ahh, excuse me, but can I see some identification...?"
    Cop: Smacks you in the head with the butt of his MP5/AR carbine variant.
    --end of story--
     
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