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Home invaders pretend to be police

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Zoogster, Aug 1, 2008.

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  1. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    The number of individuals pretending to be police to gain initial complaince during home invasions seems to be increasing.

    There is many reports of such situations across the nation.

    Here is a complilation of just a few for examples:

    2 men dressed with shirts saying 'police' and yelling police in a home invasion:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBA3psWTB2w&feature=related

    911 call of a woman robbed by 5 men dressed as police:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVhdK8nL9l0


    Robbers yelling "police, police" smash down front door and hold women hostage looking for drugs, then realize they got the wrong address and leave (taking laptop and video game system.)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY0zbH8uUjA



    4 men dressed as law enforcement involved in spree of 9 robberies:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25678456/



    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/06/27/20080627abrk-homeinvasion0627.html
    Men dressed in police raid gear, ex mexican military raid a home, and references are made to previous incident by same individuals in which over 100 shots were fired:
    http://news.ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=879606


    It goes on and on. Many similar incidents in the last year of individuals claiming to be police, dressed as police, using such a tactic to gain an advantage during criminal acts.
    Of course since police actualy do these type of invasions it is a good ploy, they even get the address wrong on occasion or are wrongly called to an address by a criminal prankster.
    When people fight back they can sometimes be charged, like in the case of Cory Maye, when it actualy was police. He now sits in prison with a life sentence, previously a death sentence.


    Clearly pretending to be police is a great tactic. In fact I do not know why it is not the standard tactic for home invaders. They can put on effective gear, and gain additional compliance from victims.

    Clearly a big part of the problem is police actualy conduct such raids. Often in an attempt to secure some substance, when an actual arrest of a subject could have easily been made another way.
    This is not a "cop bashing" but rather a question about allowing such policies in a nation where households are expected to be armed.
    It undermines the ability of law abiding people to defend themselves when someone pretending to be police chooses to make them a victim.


    Many people use the term "no knock" wrong. No knock raids are rare.
    Instead very quick knocks often in combination with "police search warrant" followed immediately by smashing down the door are far more common.
    All is often done in a matter of seconds, long before someone could actualy make it to the door to answer it (or more importantly hide some sort of evidence.)
    "No knocks" are when no announcement is made.
    So don't confuse the two when discussing the situation.


    This is not an invitation to bash cops, they are people, and all professions have people who do bad things, have honest and corrupt individuals etc.
    Instead this is to discuss the situation of criminals using the ploy of being officers.
     
  2. gunNoob

    gunNoob Member

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    I'm going to buy a police outfit so I can answer the door and just stare at them
     
  3. Tyris

    Tyris member

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    The LAPD is known to have police that did this regularly for years. So some of these bastards may well be police officers robbing people.

    All home invaders should be greeted with rifle fire, as it will penetrate weak body armor.

    -T
     
  4. Thernlund

    Thernlund Member

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    That was the Rampart Scandal.


    -T.
     
  5. Treo

    Treo member

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    We All Know Where This Is Going To End Right?

    This is gonna get locked quick before it does let me add this

    what he though was danger.

    The problem that I have here is that all the power rests in the hands of the Sturm Abieltung as a citizen on the wrong side of such a home invasion my only legal recourse is to lay on the floor and pray to God that the guy pointing an MP5 in my face is not only a cop but a good cop.

    If the Police enjoy Soveriegn Immunity while they're kicking down my door, shouldn't I enjoy the same protection when I in good faith employ deadly force in defending my home?

    I have almost ZERO use for cops and have never tried to hide the fact.
    Cops are a necessary evil that must be tolerated by a free people. Their sole purpose is to collect evidence of crimes against the state to assist the prosecutor in presenting a viable case to a court.
     
  6. Thernlund

    Thernlund Member

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    In tears.


    -T.
     
  7. whosyrdaddy

    whosyrdaddy Member

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    Forced entry is simply not a necessary tool for LE to have.
     
  8. TCB in TN

    TCB in TN Member

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    I am willing to bet that in 9999 out of 1000 times forced entry could be avoided!
     
  9. tigre

    tigre Member

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    Yeah, I'm surprised this hasn't become more common than it is. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that this is the easiest way to conduct home invasions. And really, in many cases of botched police raids I don't think there's a moral difference between that and burglars using this tactic. It's still innocent people being terrorized in their homes. The real difference is whether you can be sent to jail for defending yourself or not. At least burglars can't do that to you. I don't know what the right tactic would be in this kind of situation, but it's devastating to me that in a supposedly free country we're expected to assume that the people breaking down our doors are police.

    The best thing to do, I suppose, and probably the only thing most people can do, is talk to your representatives at all levels of government and get them to put limits on this kind of police tactic because it unnecessarily endangers the lives and safety of everyone involved. Oh, and read Radley Balko's blog if you don't already.
     
  10. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Make sure your house is the "wrong house" ;)
     
  11. Thernlund

    Thernlund Member

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    How about one of these on your door?

    [​IMG]

    Just whipped it up.


    -T.
     
  12. FCFC

    FCFC Has Never Owned a Gun

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    And that could be a conservative estimate!!
     
  13. Tyris

    Tyris member

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    Man has been using fire as a tool to deal with threats since the dawn of time.

    In South Africa cars can be retrofitted with flame throwers aimed to the side of the driver and passenger's doors to handle car jackers.

    I think a similar concept could be applied just inside the front door (assuming the room had properly built stone walls + metal ceiling. This would give the home owner the ability to deploy counter measures without directly having to fire upon the invaders, nor receiving fire from them when they panic as they are char broiled. With any luck, they may even shoot a few of their own.

    If a man's home is his castle, then it may be time for us as a society to build in the requisite defenses from the barbarians at the gate.

    -T
     
  14. Thernlund

    Thernlund Member

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    Booby traps are a big no-no. But you did say "...home owner the ability to deploy...", so maybe.


    -T.
     
  15. Tyris

    Tyris member

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    Booby traps imply that it is automatic and unmanned.

    Manually throwing a switch removes the worry of deployment on the unintended.

    -T
     
  16. exoduster18

    exoduster18 Member

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    Thernlund - Very Nice!! I think that your sign gets the point across nicely. Also, in a state (such as Florida) where the Castle Doctrine is in play, I think that something like this would be great in the event of a botched raid or home invasion.
     
  17. Thernlund

    Thernlund Member

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    Thanks. Credit for the idea goes to someone else in another thread earlier this year, but I can't remember who.


    -T.
     
  18. pbearperry

    pbearperry Member

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    When in doubt if they are real cops or not,look outside to see if there is a marked unit there.If there is not one tell whoever is outside that unless you see a marked unit outside you will not open the door.In the mean time dial 911 and start a marked unit to respond.However if you are a nut job or a standard POS,playing games with the cops will serve you nothing but grief.Og crap I forgot,this suggestion will only work with people with brains.Now wasn't that easy?
     
  19. Thernlund

    Thernlund Member

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    My house is not laid out in such a way that I can look out the front window prior to engaging an armed threat actively knocking down my front door.

    Now wasn't that easy?

    :rolleyes:


    -T.
     
  20. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    I wonder what it takes to make your doors essentially "bash proof". It is probably a difficult thing to do, but in this day and age it seems like good insurance against both those who intend to commit crimes and those who intend to punish them.

    If nothing else, it would be amusing to hear of an entry team spending five minutes on the door and then getting a call from headquarters along the lines of "The homeowner called. He says if you'll calm down and stop bashing his door he'll come down and unlock it for you."
     
  21. ChrisVV

    ChrisVV Member

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    Didnt Oleg do a poster about No-Knock Warrants?
     
  22. tigre

    tigre Member

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    I don't know, but in the case of Kathryn Johnson I believe she had burglar bars on the windows and doors and it didn't keep them out.


    As to looking out the window, calling 911, etc., the point of these raids is that they don't exactly stand around on your front porch and give you time to do that, and they most certainly don't need you to open the door for them. If your house is raided you're probably going to wake up to the sound of armed men coming through your door.
     
  23. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    Most actual LEO surprise raids do not involve a marked vehicle near the home. Unless the individual is a barricaded suspect.
    They use a discrete van or park down the street and travel to the home on foot. After all the element of surprise is the whole purpose in most situations, to aquire evidence before it can be destroyed.

    It can be helpful against common criminals in some cases.
    However many homes both police and actual criminals raid are protected by bars on windows and metal heavy 'screen' doors.
    Both often look for the most accessible entrance, whether it is a back door, a window etc
    The actual police often use a chain and something like a grapling hook to drive right up to the door or as close as possible, attach it and then yank the door off its hinges driving the opposite direction. Taking a matter of seconds from the time they pull up for those who previously trained.
    That is commonly necessary in bad neighborhoods where many people have such doors and fortifications.

    Something to consider with any fortifications is that you don't want to pose a greater threat to the family and self inside by making people trapped during a fire for example. So security must be balanced.
    Being trapped in a burning home with fortifications you cannot quickly open without a key put you or loved ones at risk.
     
  24. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

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    Baring total replacement of door and frame with a steel door and frame set (something I've been looking for but been unable to find for residential use), these folks look like they have a good start on a solution.

    http://www.djarmor.com/Door-Jamb-Armor

    See also:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yjZRw5Ks3Y

    Probably won't slow down the legit cops much, but that is not the point of this stuff.

    Also consider how easy it would be pick the locks. Google "lock bumping",

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr23tpWX8lM

    As far as keeping the intruders out once they breach the perimiter of the home, I wonder if some sort of automated paintball marker with pepper balls would pass muster?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JvxnrzB1Jk&feature=related
     
  25. Treo

    Treo member

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    they actually do make door bars that you can use. A 2X4 under the knob will slow them down. an enclosed porch W/ an alarmed security door away from the front door. Waist high driveway sensors in the middle of your yard. Etc. Etc. Etc.

    Sooner or later the cops are going to get into a situation where they're outgunned, then you'll see a change
     
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