Home invasion foiled

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by astrolite, Feb 11, 2009.

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  1. MachIVshooter
    • Contributing Member

    MachIVshooter Contributing Member

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    Giving him the benefit of the doubt, he could have been involved in a legit business with highly desireable commodities. FFL or jewlery/coin dealer comes to mind.

    My uncle is a coin dealer, and worked from home for many years before opening a storefront. He was ripped off a number of times. Of course, he lives in NYC and is an anti, so he just has to take his licks and move on.:rolleyes:
     
  2. expvideo

    expvideo Member

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    -Still armed
    -Still on his property

    I say green light.

    For the cameras, maybe. But other than cameras, I'm just as prepared at my home, and I don't break any kinds of laws. I am about 2 seconds away from what most gun grabbers would consider an "insane" amount of firepower. I think a lot of us are. And you can buy a home security camera system at Costco, so I don't know if I would call that overly prepared. However, I agree that he was probably engaged in illegal activity, which would explain why he wasn't forthcoming with an interview.
     
  3. LegalAlien

    LegalAlien Member

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    Calling it a 'Home Invasion' is putting it mildly.

    Homeys driving a big ole Chrysler with huge 20"+ bling (maybe even spinners) wheels; one carrying an AR; another a handgun with gloves; all done in daylight; homeowner has surveillance cams all over; he is actively monitoring these cams?

    Nah . . . . methinks it was a turf war revenge over some deal gone sour.

    Obviously he has the fullest right to protect his property, but I seriously doubt that this man is a clean law abiding citizen.

    But . . . I might be wrong.
     
  4. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Absolutely. My take is that they were going for the car to use as a breeching tool and so the homeowner disallowed that option as being viable.
     
  5. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    First, I doubt it was the camera that tipped him off to their approach. I suspect he may have had a motion detector as well that alerted him to the people pulling into his driveway and approaching his front door. He probably met them at the front door and they panicked and ran when he started firing on them from the moment the door was opened. They were caught in a funnel trying to enter the door, one that he effectively controlled.
     
  6. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    If the trend is any indication, Jeff is likely right...

    lpl
    =======

    http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE4979VW20081008?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

    Criminals targeted in U.S. "kidnap capital"
    Wed Oct 8, 2008 2:57pm EDT

    By Tim Gaynor

    PHOENIX (Reuters) - The criminal underworld in the sun-baked Arizona capital of Phoenix has long enjoyed the hot money profits from illicit smuggling of drugs and people over the border from Mexico.

    But now its members are living in fear as they are stalked by kidnappers after their proceeds, authorities say.

    Police in the desert city say specialized kidnap rings are snatching suspected criminals and their families from their homes, running them off the roads and even grabbing them at shopping malls in a spiraling spate of abductions.

    "Phoenix is ground zero for illegal narcotics smuggling and illegal human smuggling in the United States," said Phil Roberts, a Phoenix Police Department detective.

    "There's a lot of illegal cash out there in the valley, and a lot of people want to get their hands on it."

    Last year alone, Phoenix police reported 357 extortion-related abductions -- up by nearly half from 2005 -- targeting individuals with ties to Mexican smuggling rings.

    In addition, federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement police have also recorded cases of kidnappers snatching illegal immigrant day laborers off the street for ransom.

    Agents have also recorded a growing number of "virtual kidnappings," in which abductors cold-call an immigrant's family falsely claiming that they are holding them hostage. The tactic is used frequently Mexico, where abduction is a lucrative and sophisticated industry. //snip

    =========================
    http://www.kpho.com/news/16888051/detail.html

    Video: 5i: Phoenix Kidnapping Capital Of U.S.

    5 Investigates Phoenix Kidnapping Epidemic
    POSTED: 8:04 am MST July 15, 2008
    UPDATED: 4:24 pm MST July 15, 2008

    PHOENIX -- Phoenix is in the middle of a kidnapping epidemic, police said.
    Last year the Phoenix police department handed 359 extortion-related kidnapping cases, Sgt. Phil Roberts said. The ransom demands in these cases can range from $50,000 to $1 million, he said.

    Officers said even though this epidemic affects mostly drug and human smugglers, each kidnapping call that comes into the department becomes a rescue mission.
    "It doesn't matter to us whether he's a drug dealer, he's a coyote, or whether he's legal or illegal," Roberts told 5 Investigates. "We look at it in the robbery unit as it's a human life. It's a human being out there that's being tortured and we're going to do everything we can to rescue that person."

    And even though the victims rarely seem innocent to the eyes of the general public, police said these kidnappings pose a danger to everyone.

    "A lot of these abductions…do not occur in the middle of the night [or] at two o'clock in the morning at someone's house," Roberts said. "We've had people abducted in busy shopping malls, in the middle of the street.
    "The violence is going to spill over."
    The Phoenix police department is now considered one of the best local police departments in the country when it comes to kidnappings and hostage situations, officials said.
     
  7. sm

    sm member

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    A couple of thoughts come to mind viewing that video:

    -Don't look like prey - think like a criminal.

    -Do something, right, wrong or indifferent, just do something to stop a threat and survive.

    -Anything can be used for good or evil, it is the intent that defines, not the hardware.

    The homeowner could be a legit FFL, or coin dealer working from home , or a drug dealer..
    Fact is, Preventative steps were in play to get the earliest signal of trouble.

    Another fact is, homeowner dealt with trouble when it showed up, and while perhaps the strategy and tactics used were not those that would win any class rankings, or trophies at 3 Gun match, or any other "competition", or suggested practice at a carbine class...he took action and
    ...threats left.

    I am just backing up and looking at the whole video without sound, and not knowing the details.

    While I agree with Jeff, and others...

    What if...

    Undercover cops roll up in a Bling Bling Chrysler (granted we hope they are a bit better organized and have their act together) and homeowner is a drug dealer, kiddie porn dealer...whatever.

    I am just looking at this see what went right, wrong, and learning from it.

    It does seem Lady Luck made and appearance for both parties though.

    *sigh*
    Doesn't anybody roll up standing on the side of a Packard anymore and use Tommy Guns and Violin cases?

    mumble-grumble old black and white movies had better action and shoot'em ups...mumble grumble....
     
  8. Bezoar

    Bezoar member

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    this is rather fishy here.

    if the guy in the dwelling was worried enough to be monitoring video cameras all day while holding a shotgun, then he should have been learning how to shoot correctly, and put bullets into targets. to be otherwise is really really foolish.

    also it kinda feels like it was a simple scout recon job on the guy. if they gangbangers knew he had something of worth, that was worth the risk of getting shot, they would have come in sufficient force to getit the first time and leave no witness.
     
  9. VegasOPM

    VegasOPM Member

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    Why did he leave his house? :confused:
     
  10. sm

    sm member

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    Good Questions.

    Keep in mind, not everyone is 'into' firearms, and everything else as folks are on gun forums.
    Including Police.

    The fact is, folks are not being raised with guns in the home as they used to be.
    Many persons that report to the Police Academy now-a-days were not raised with guns and their first real exposure to firearms is the Academy.
    The issued weapon is a tool. Just another something else that they have wear around the waist all day long, that gets heavy, gets in the way, and they "have to" pass quals from time to time, and dep regs says the armorer is the one to take care of the darn thing.

    The fact is, we have different Models of Criminals [ ATSA, Skip Gochenour , Talking to the Indians] and if one is familiar with these models, they will know there exist differences in these models, including firearms knowledge and use.

    i.e. While some might stick a.380 in a 9mm and call it good to go, other Models have very nice guns, and have the time invested in live fire and training and actually look like they are shooting IDPA/IPSC/3 Gun.

    Dead Serious, there are criminals that know more about guns, ammo, strategy and tactics than law abiding folks.

    Back to the video and keeping what I just shared in mind...WE can learn from this video.

    Maybe...this was a test of security for response times.
    Just like criminals toss a rock through a window to set off an alarm and check to see how long responses are, and who responds.
    Later when the real job is going down, they toss rocks on the opposite side of town to distract, while the real job is going down.
    This is a old old S&T that still works.

    Nobody says you cannot check response times on a criminal, if this house was one of a criminal as we suspect.
    Criminals would do this if it was a coin dealer for instance that works from home.

    My gut says, after watching that video a few more times, these youths were sent to check responses.
    My gut also says there is a lot more "response" available if the level of threat increases.
    If more "seasoned" criminals come back, I betcha for one the home security is looking for this to happen, and the already next level (s) are in place and folks are watching, and ready.

    I also betcha there are dawgs, trained dawgs that will be unleashed if a threat hits a certain level.

    Watch the video some more and instead of looking to pick it apart, look at to learn from what it is.
    "Step back and just watch it, not critique it".

    Sometimes we cannot see the forest , for looking at the trees...
     
  11. Hardtarget

    Hardtarget Member

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    He survived. That's good!

    Bad guys survived. That's BAD.

    As far as shooting at them as they fled, ( and no longer a threat), Note that the bad guys are still alive. They came once...they'll be back....so they are still a viable threat. They were fleeing felons

    Mark.
     
  12. XavierBreath

    XavierBreath Member

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    I dunno Jeff. Recreational pharmaceuticals maybe. Jewels maybe. Guns maybe. Perhaps he's a Class 3 collector with an extensive collection in his basement.

    This may not have been a robbery attempt so much as a kidnapping attempt. We just don't know.

    As far as the stray bullets, we can not be certain who fired what based on the information presented.

    There is far too little information to make a determination regarding this video, other than to say he repelled the invasion.

    Just because he has CCTV equipment doesn't mean he's into illegal activity. I suspect the Pima County Sheriff's Department would have more info in the news concerning the homeowner' activities if he were a criminal. The news stories are just not painting it that way. On the other hand, if he were in a lucrative legitimate business ripe for a home invasion, the Sheriff's Department would keep quiet about it.
     
  13. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    No, I think just the opposite. If the homeowner was a law abiding, upstanding citizen there would be a lot more information released on this crime. It would certainly be something to brag about.

    Instead there is next to no information available about this crime. I'll give you it could be an attempted kidnapping, another indicator of involvement in the violent drug war down there.

    I'm not saying cctv is an indicator of criminal activity, I'm saying living every day in such a state of readiness that you were responding almost as soon as they exited their vehicle is. Unless you have someone standing watch on the cctv monitors and in position to respond it would be hard to keep them so close to their vehicle. I'm betting there was an alarm at the end of the drive way too.

    Too little information available to really make any determination at all, but my gut tells me that the homeowner isn't going to be up for any citizen of the year awards from the Tucson City Council.
     
  14. Travis Bickle

    Travis Bickle member

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    Either that, or some other shady business. Human trafficking is big around these parts, too.

    It would be interesting to know if he's lawyered up.
     
  15. XavierBreath

    XavierBreath Member

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    But if he were a legitimate gun dealer/collector or diamond merchant, wouldn't the police keep quiet about his business for his own protection?

    If there was a shoot out on the street on the other hand, and the home owner was involved in criminal activity, wouldn't that give police cause for a search warrant leading to a big bust of a drug dealer or other criminal being publicized?

    Of course, Tucson isn't exactly the diamond capitol of the Southwest, but surely wealthy men buy their wives jewelry there.

    edited to add: The readiness may not be all that it seems on video. Take into consideration that the video is likely edited. We know it is edited at least once. There is no time stamp. There would be no reason to publish an unedited video of a BMW sitting in the drive for five to ten minutes while the four perps were off camera checking windows and doors. It's not as dramatic, and viewers would lose interest before the pay-off of the four criminals running away.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2009
  16. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Probably not. If he were a legitimate businessman he would be known in the community. You can't keep that kind of thing quiet. The bad guys looked a little inept to be the kind of professionals that would try to take down a jewelry merchant or high dollar gun dealer.

    Several years back we had a series of burglaries here in the midwest. The thieves were very technically proficient leaving almost no clues. The FBI said they thought they were getting inside information and actually flying into towns in small private aircraft, doing the burglaries and leaving the same way. Only high dollar items were taken and the thieves knew way too much about how the items were stored. They hit a house where I was working. The FBI was working the angle that they were getting inside information from an insurance company employee. To my knowledge they were never caught, but it was assumed the same crew (for lack of a better word) was responsible for over a dozen burglaries all over the midwest.

    The bad guys in this incident just didn't look competent enough to be the kind of people involved in those high dollar crimes. But you never know.
     
  17. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    The FBI was working the angle that they were getting inside information from an insurance company employee

    that happens way more than folks realize. in current economic downturn swome businesses will be hiring hits on themselves the insurance money is operating capital and they can buy equipment back from the burglars.
     
  18. JImbothefiveth

    JImbothefiveth Member

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    According to a policeman interviewed, it said the guy defending himself had a history of involvement with drugs.
     
  19. ArizonaTRex

    ArizonaTRex Member

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    FYI in Tucson the Gem and Mineral Show is going on.
    Lots of money in Town right now. And Jewels!
    The homeowner may have been involved in illegal activities, but two of the suspects have been arrested.
     
  20. ilcylic

    ilcylic Member

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    I can think of a couple other possibilities, no interest in talking about them because I don't feel like posting my setup on the internet. But, the scenario of "being home and being prepared" isn't exceedingly implausible to me, and I'm sure as heck not dealing drugs, or engaged in other nefarious activities.

    Some of us are prepared simply because of where we live.
     
  21. MrToad

    MrToad Member

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    Home invasions and kidnapping have been growing in Arizona especially. A crime that has emigrated from S.A. with the illegal aliens and drug wars.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6848672&page=1

    Saw this on abc the other night and if you google Arizona kidnappings you'll get more hits than you have time to read..
    This incident seems to be one of those types of crime.
     
  22. David904

    David904 Member

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    Maybe this guy is simply well to do. He may have a nice house and expensive things - and it had become common knowledge around the area. The result was an attempted home invasion in the middle of the day.

    Rest assured that if I had the disposable income, I'd place little surveillance cameras around my perimeter. It sure couldn't hurt....
     
  23. salthouse

    salthouse Member

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    I remember reading that most home invasions take place between 10:00am and 3:00pm. So the time of day seems normal. The "perps" do seem to be a little too organized, but what do I know. Whole thing seemed a little too A-team like, how did everyone escape serious injury?
     
  24. Willo

    Willo Member

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    Whatever the guy was, or wasn't, into, I am gladdened by the fact that the cops gave him the benefit of the doubt, as did the neighbors.

    There were no comments about "he should have called 911" or "vigilantism is looked down upon" or "he should have just given the robbers what they wanted" or anything like that.

    As the economy tanks, the state has less money for cops, etc. etc. etc., I sincerely hope that the US realizes that we all have the right to arm ourselves to protect our families.
     
  25. Davionmaximus

    Davionmaximus Member

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    Nice group on the windshield :D
     
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