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Homeland Tours: Soldiers in our Streets?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Deer Hunter, Sep 24, 2008.

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  1. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    Does anyone else get a really, really bad vibe from this?

    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/

    Last Bold was me. I particularly find it disgusting.

    So how will a bunch of soldiers armed to the teeth with nonlethal weapons help people out during an earthquake? What are they trying to stop? Looters?

    Don't we already have the National Guard for this?

    And we have seen numerous cops (ab)use the taser. So these guys are getting a military version while they roam the streets?

    This just doesn't sit well with me at all.
     
  2. romma

    romma Member

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    Yes, thankfully they will be there to "help Us"...

    It's for our own good (don't you know)..

    While I respect out military, the only place the should be in our country is on the borders IMO...
     
  3. xsquidgator

    xsquidgator Member

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    Makes me nervous too. The Roman Republic had a sensible prohibition on troops at home, until Julius Ceasar brought his legions back and took Rome. Then seeing troops in Rome became common and the Roman Republic turned into the Roman Empire.
     
  4. MagnumDweeb

    MagnumDweeb Member

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    I get real bad juju from this. Just like when about two years ago New York City said it would be putting heavily armed (SWAT style with fully automatic weapons) cops on the streets walking on patrol.

    Don't get me wrong, I got buddies in the service, and I respect and praise military service folk, but that don't mean I want them heavily armed lethal or nonlethal(come on like they won't have MGs and high velocity rifles at the ready for immediate response deployment) walking my streets. Didn't our founding father, Framers of the Constitutions, warn of standing armies, especially when those standing armies are quartered within our cities.

    I'm wondering if the government, status quo, is starting to realize what a lot of folk have been suspecting for some time, like the secessionist folk and other odd types who speak radically ill of our government, we're headed for a bad time. Me and a lot of my rather mild conservative friends are getting bad feelings about what's coming down the pipe, just hope what we're feeling isn't what's coming.

    Also what about this civil unrest bit, what is civil unrest, is protesting bogus constitution infringing laws civil unrest. Is peaceful gathering civil unrest. Is speaking against the government civil unrest, how far can this go?
     
  5. bogie

    bogie Member

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    Well, personally, I'm a big fan of Stuff That Works.

    If you've had the crap blown out of your general area, whether by a hurricane, a volcano eruption, or Achmed, you wanna see someone schlepping something into the area that'll help.

    A bus full of folks castoff clothing is nice... But big-ol' generators are a lot nicer... Helicopters for air evac. MASH units also really exist (or did about 15 years ago...).

    Of course, I'm also figuring that Unca may be gearing up for the largest series of riots this country has ever seen... There's a lot of angry people out there, with a groundswell building.

    In addition, in event of a large scale terrorist attack, the military knows how to -act- rather than sit around playing bureaucracy.

    IBTL, by the way...
     
  6. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    Yes, yes, yes the US is just like the Roman Empire except for the whole thng about slaves, capitalism, socialism, the constitution, planes, trains, automobiles, a fiat currency, nuclear weapons, world conquest, tribute to the Republic, the Supreme Court, the second ammendment and of course most importantly: Lead pots. The fear here is without lead pots the empire will never end. Luckily there are still tin foil hats available in ample quantity.

    1/3 is an outstanding unit. I don't know the new commander COL Cloutier but knew the last one pretty well. Combined with the Sunni Awakening they drove all of AQI from the Western regions until now there is literally a handful left. The people there are much happier and finnally starting to go about their lives.

    There has almost always been a standby Brigade to respond to major disasters. If you would prefer I imagine we can not have one. Kind of like when they got caught short after Katrina. Shouldn't take more than a month to get spun up when the government created hurricanes level the South again or the government set wildfires move through Arizona, or the government volcanoes go off in HI and WA or the Earthquake machine that they keep in Area 51 finnally drops Southern California into the sea.
     
  7. FieroCDSP

    FieroCDSP Member

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    Local and state defense is the purview of the National Guard, under the command of the state governor. There is neither a reason, nor requirement for the standing army to do the job.
    If they need to be deployed to assist in an Evac or dispensing aid, okay... The governor should have that as an option. But the security of an afflicted area should be provided by the people that live there, the National Guard. This way, home-rule remains.

    Bad vibes, yes. But well have to see how it comes down legally, because I don't think there's a legal precedent for it.
     
  8. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    Bogie, I'm sure that these people will be of help during hurricane relief.

    However,

    Will they be able to help any better than the national guard or FEMA? Look at the damage after hurricane Ike. The people were told to get out, and if you didn't, well too bad, we hope you make it. It's the best response to these situations. Houston got hit hard, but in seven days almost all of Houston had its power back on.

    If an earthquake happened, we'd need cleanup. How are armed soldiers going to help this?
     
  9. Jorg Nysgerrig

    Jorg Nysgerrig Member

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    Yeah, how would that medical and engineer unit mentioned be of any use. :rolleyes:

    You do realize they can put down their rifles to clean up stuff, right? Ever been in the military, Deer Hunter? You might surprised how much work doesn't revolve around guns. When dealing with things like disaster cleanup, you need manpower. Guess what infantry units have?

    Back about 16 years ago, I witnessed this sort of thing first hand. Due to a particularly bad wildfire year, they deployed troops from Ft. Hood to Idaho. They used troops to guard monitor and mop up established firelines so that the wildland firefighters could work on direct attack.

    Not saying this is a great idea, but I'm afraid it doesn't come off as such a nefarious plan in my eyes.
     
  10. lenziggy

    lenziggy Member

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    BO will rejoice to have these troops to control us gunlovers.
     
  11. gregormeister

    gregormeister Member

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    Well if anything happens that ends up like NOLA's aftermath, I hope they are armed...looting, thieving, murder...ETC...But at a time when nothing is going on??? No thanks, I'll defend my own property and take care of my own dilemas..
     
  12. Pat-inCO

    Pat-inCO Member

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    It would seem you did not see the quote from one of our Admirals about why Bush sent nuclear carriers when there was a tsunami.
    1) Capacity/manpower
    2) Training
    3) Equipment

    I'm not wildly in favor, but it seems a lot less of a problem - to me.
     
  13. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    No, I have never been in the military. Yes, I understand quite well what can be done without rifles.

    Now you said that they were deployed from Ft. Hood. Now what I don't really like is the idea of soldiers in cities and such just hanging out.

    Not that I do not trust or have any kind of dislike for the military, that's not it. I simply don't think it would be beneficial to have a standing military presence in cities.

    I do not think this is the end of freedom in this country, nor do I believe that they will stomp down our doors and take all of our guns and shoot our puppies in the heads. I'm no tinfoil hate wearer.

    And yes I do understand the importance of the military to assist with local organizations during a natural disaster.

    What concerns me is all the non-lethal gear they will be handed, coupled with their presence. It seems like overkill unless we've got the LA riots on our hands.
     
  14. one-shot-one

    one-shot-one Member

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    $0.02

    just ask the folks in Galeston Tx. in a few weeks how it went with the Navy & Marines cleaning their beaches & streets for them. They'll let you know if there were any "problems".
     
  15. elChupacabra!

    elChupacabra! member

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    Whatever happened to the Posse Comitatus act?

    And IBTL
     
  16. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    Just to calrify. The plans for the standby Brigade have addressed dealing with civil unrest for as long as I can remember, say 20 years, likely much longer. But 99% of the time the National Guard gets that particular duty.

    When I deployed to Homestead, FL after Andrew leveled it the FL Guard (all of whom were called up, and I mean all of them) pulled the security and assisted the police while the Army picked up trash, helped get the lights on, set a hospital and gave away food and water.

    Due to the looting and the other issues we did not exactly go unarmed. For some reason no one messed with convoy full of armed soldiers.
     
  17. JDoe

    JDoe Member

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    What is the very good, but so far unknown reason, that military forces are being considered to suppress civil unrest at this moment in U.S. history?
     
  18. Doc Savage

    Doc Savage Member

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    I've got to say that this doesn't bother me in the least.

    I've actually worked with ARNORTH 5th army in the Incident Command Post for exercises preparing for this stuff. There is almost as much civilian staff involved as Army. The Adjunct General of the NG is plugged into this and the real push is to utilize army assets (mainly command and control assets, but also personnel) that are much more robust than what the civilian gov has available to it in helping in the event of a disaster. Terrorist scenarios aren't the only ones involving CBERNE events, major natural disasters can result in chemical or radiological events (one scenario we simulated was a recreation of the San Francisco earthquake, you would never believe how many industrial chemicals would be stored in the area impacted by something like that). Besides, most of the group involved is more interested in putting together power point presentations with pretty pictures together rather than stomping on the public's rights. ;)

    Robert
     
  19. qwert65

    qwert65 Member

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    I think there are better ways to go about this or alternativley get rid of another orginization thats suppossed to handle it.
    Further, NO would not have happened had they understood that water likes to seek its level(kinda common sense)
     
  20. JDoe

    JDoe Member

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    From Wikipedia here are some

     
  21. RobNDenver

    RobNDenver Member

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    After Katrina, I was thrilled to see the 82nd Airborne on the ground. We had been in NO for 3 days setting up comms and guarding our selves. It was a huge benefit to have the Army and the Sailors from the Iwo Jima and other vessels helping out.

    I saw one message trying to spin this as a way to bash Barack Obama. Please don't go there. This is a reasonable thread and shouldn't turn political.
     
  22. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    Thanks for all the comments guys.

    I posted this to see comments from those who know a bit more about it than I do.

    My fears have been suppressed a bit. Assistance is good during national disasters, but I still think that a standing presence is a bit much.
     
  23. springmom

    springmom Member

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    I can think of a WHOLE lot of things to get downright tinfoil-hatty about these days, in garbage emanating from Washington. THIS plan, however, is not one of them.

    Imagine, for a moment, Houston (still without power in about 1/3 of the households, BTW, despite a massive influx of electricians from across the country). Now imagine Houston after a successful attack with Ricin in all those skyscrapers at, say, the same time as the Texas Medical Center buildings.

    If you think Houston's EMS, fine as they are, are up to that, you need to dust the bats out of your belfry. Yes, the National Guard is for that sort of thing, and I'm sure they'd be deployed as well. But there is an ENORMOUS gulf between "soldiers hanging around in the streets" and a trained and effective group intervening where NO ONE in their right minds would ever choose to go.

    They're not being deployed for police duty. They wouldn't be deployed to deal with the gang problem in SW Houston. They'd be for catastrophies like the one we're still dealing with down here.

    From where I sit in my torn up house, I'd welcome with open arms a company of soldiers with some knowledge of how to tear down ceilings and walls and put 'em back up. And I expect Galveston could have a whole lot more to say about it.

    Springmom, who's not quite ready for a tinfoil bonnet on this one
     
  24. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    Springmom,

    Sorry to hear about your house. Do you live near Kuykendahl and 2920? I heard that area was still without power, but I had been hearing reports of power coming on in a lot of areas in Houston. My girlfriend's dad has been letting me know which parts have been getting power.

    I agree that they can be used for disaster relief. I was a bit quick to see the bad things that could come of this.
     
  25. Picard

    Picard Member

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    Well whatever happens, keep on stocking up on guns and ammo. Tell your friends to do the same.
     
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