Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

homemade brass question... no really

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by dragon613, Jul 26, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. dragon613

    dragon613 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    I've been doing a lot of research on the topic and I believe that it can be done. over the next year I plan to be purchasing a full set of machinist tools including a shop press in excess of 100 tons a lathe mill ect. and I think I've got the process thought through in it's entirety all I need to do is purchse the machinery and start making some deep drawing dies. what I wanted to know was if anyone had any advice as to what size press I would need for deep drawing the brass. im thinking that I will be buying at least a 100 ton but if there were any machinists out there who had experience with this kind of operation the advice would be gladly welcomed I did the math of the physics of this operation, converted newtons to tons and it said I should be able to get away with a 50 ton buy I wanted to know from someone with experience as a machinist I can get up to a 200 ton press at the local tool supply and larger ones yet from the manufacturer
     
  2. cowtownup

    cowtownup Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    376
    Location:
    Eastern NC
    Helluva first post.... Welcome to THR... I can't offer any advice, but good luck with your quest...
     
  3. Encoreman

    Encoreman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    422
    I 2nd the first post!! How about a much simpler question for some simpler mind like mine. Welcome to THR, if you get this accomplished we need pics.
     
  4. dragon613

    dragon613 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    thanks if I can get this working it would be a great addition to reloading as I could potentialially produce new BRASS not steel cases around 10-15 cent each I just wanted to know if anyone had any experience drawing brass
     
  5. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    Finding Cartridge brass sheet in small enough quantities to make this possible might be real hard to do.
    Cartridge brass is not the same alloy as brass you buy at the hardware store.

    Then you need a 'coining' press to cut circles out of the sheet.

    Then you will need heat treating ovens to anneal the cups between draws.
    Then final anneal the necks and leave the heads work-hardened.

    There is much more too it then pounding sand down a rat hole.

    rc
     
  6. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    22,325
    Location:
    Northeast PA, USA
    Welcome to the forum.

    I'm not trying to throw water on the fire but how many cases will you have to produce to recover the price of all the equipment you will need to purchase to produce those cases. Unless you are thinking about producing cases for commercial sale I highly doubt you will recover your costs within your lifetime. (50 ton press $1,995, 100 ton press $4,695)
     
  7. Kp321

    Kp321 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,016
    Location:
    West Texas
    It would be much simpler to machine casings from brass bar stock.
     
  8. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    9,832
    Location:
    SW Arizona
    Well if you get it effectively up and running, at least you'll always have brass for your needs should the Feds try to impede our hobby by forcing manufacturer's to use non re-loadable case components, like aluminum.

    GS
     
  9. Officers'Wife

    Officers'Wife Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    3,028
    Location:
    A long way from heaven and too close to Chicago
    Interesting, another man with an OMB gene. Do you intend to one pass press or two pass? What kind of annealing set up do you plan on? Rimmed or unrimmed cartridges? Good luck.
     
  10. Potatohead
    • Contributing Member

    Potatohead Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    5,371
    No doubt....this is deeeeep
     
  11. clocker

    clocker Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    72
    The general rule for machine tools is that you always want to go as big or bigger than you think at first. I'd stay on the upper end of the presses if you can swing the cost and working space.

    With regards to brass... Have you compared the cost of labor, tooling, materials with just buying out a container of military surplus? For most people, 1-10k pieces of brass per cartridge should set them up for life.

    Next questions... Are you doing this for independence? Are you doing it for quality? Are you doing it for curiosity? All of those will play into how expensive and extensive this plan will get.

    I never like to discourage a person from their dreams, but do like to encourage an overall picture.
     
  12. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,681
    Location:
    Tampa Bay area
    Stamping Brass

    How many pieces are planning to blank out before you go to the deep draw operation?
    A progressive die might be your best shot at drawing for cartridges. I'd think that you'd want al least a 35 ton punch press. Annealing to bring the metal back to a more malleable hardness is a must.
    A couple of jobs I had involved drawing "German Silver" a nickel/copper alloy for hermetically sealed relays.
     
  13. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    That will only work for low pressure black powder calibers.

    The drawing process imparts strength to the brass all out of proportion to a case machined from bar stock.

    As mentioned earlier, the work hardened case head enters into how much pressure the finished case can withstand.

    You don't get any of that when machining cases from bar stock.

    rc
     
  14. Sunray

    Sunray Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Messages:
    11,019
    Location:
    London, Ont.
    "...I did the math of the physics..." It ain't the physics, it's the cost.
    "...all I need to do is purchase the machinery and..." Got a place to put this stuff? Licences, etc? You don't need any press either. Cases aren't stamped.
     
  15. vongh

    vongh Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    204
    Location:
    NM
    Would'nt you also need a special lathe and form tools made for each individual cartridge to create the extractor groove?
     
  16. Fn-Scar 17 s

    Fn-Scar 17 s Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    36
  17. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    9,566
    There is a video on this page that shows you everything you need step by step.

    http://www.ssarmory.com/ammunitionmanufacturingequipment.aspx

    The last 2 punch presses I bought were $500 each (20 ton and 30 ton) but then you would have to automate them and have tooling. By themselves they are nothing more than big hammers with a precise stroke.

    I bet one could get going for just a few millon if he did it just right.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2013
  18. PapaG

    PapaG Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,079
    Location:
    Il
    You are going to need to investigate how to do batch annealing also.
     
  19. Conservidave

    Conservidave Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    367
    weather you think you can, or weather you think you cant....either way you're right!
     
  20. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Messages:
    7,397
    Location:
    Central Arkansas
    Agreed!
    While I am not optimistic, I am very interested to know how it turns out for you. Please update us and good luck!
     
  21. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    9,566
    The business that I linked to above rebuilds and sells the type of equipment you are looking for.

    Case Draw Presses
    Case Trim
    Heading Presses
    Head Turn
    Tapering Machines
    Body and Neck Annealing
    Pierce and Priming with Waterproofing Systems
    Bullet Assembly
    Lead Headers
    Ballistics Equipment
    Loading Machines
    Linking
    Hopper Feed Systems

    Annealing the product, portions of or in entirety will be the easy part of your project.
     
  22. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    5,081
    Location:
    Florida
    Put your money and time and money into making bullets out of 22 brass.;)
     
  23. brickeyee

    brickeyee Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    3,135
    Not any normal press.
     
  24. ironworkerwill

    ironworkerwill Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,839
    Location:
    AUabama- WE FEAR NO WEEVIL
    I think it's intrepid of dragon613. You will only be limited by your desire to make it happen. Remember 99 percent perspiration.
     
  25. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    9,566
    Nothing special about the presses, just the tooling.

    here is one for $1200

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bliss-Punch...510?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item3f277bdcbe

    The presses themselves can be had cheap at equipment auctions. Most of the bidders are scrap guys, they just take the motors off and get scrap price for the iron.

    All of the tooling required for the process/automation would be the expensive part.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page