Homemade Primers for Serious Use?
- Thread starter Dannix
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Tim the student
Member
I recall seeing some threads about that on here, but I can't find them. Maybe you have better search-fu.
FROGO207
Member
There have been discussions on other forums and some comments here. Consensus is unless you have a real good background in chemistry and the $$$$ for the machining it's not worth the bother, let alone profitable.
Sport45
Member
What do you mean by "serious" use? If you want consistent, reliable primers you are much better off treating them as a consumable and just buying primers as needed.
navyretired 1
Member
The only thing I've ever seen was in a US Army Special Forces manual on improvised munitions and explosives. Wood match stick striking head.
Never tried primers are still available but I've got 2 coffee cans full of fired primers and 3 cans of 22 lr empties?
Never tried primers are still available but I've got 2 coffee cans full of fired primers and 3 cans of 22 lr empties?
For serious use I mean to actually go hunting with or some such. Not like the phosphorus youtube vid Lee Roder is referring to where it would be dangerous to implement.
Frogo, what machining? I'm referring to "reloading" primers, not making them from scratch. And for the record, not making them in bulk either. Just making a few with precision when factory ones cannot be had...or just for the fun of it. Cookbook chemistry can be fun.
navyretired, you swag? I understand spent primers are good for gas checks, and 22LR jackets for .223s.
Hum, a potassium chlorate, charcoal, sulfur mix might do the trick as apparently this was the mix of WW1, with WW2 being potassium chlorate, antimony sulfide, lead
thiocyanate, and Trinitrotoluene. Tricky stuff that last bit -- got to be careful when adding that third nitrogen. The WW1 mix produces potassium chloride, but this wouldn't be an issue for the purpose defined above.
Match tips with graphite i.e. pencil lead as a stabilizer may be an interesting "from household items" primer, albeit probably still unsafe.
Frogo, what machining? I'm referring to "reloading" primers, not making them from scratch. And for the record, not making them in bulk either. Just making a few with precision when factory ones cannot be had...or just for the fun of it. Cookbook chemistry can be fun.
navyretired, you swag? I understand spent primers are good for gas checks, and 22LR jackets for .223s.
Hum, a potassium chlorate, charcoal, sulfur mix might do the trick as apparently this was the mix of WW1, with WW2 being potassium chlorate, antimony sulfide, lead
thiocyanate, and Trinitrotoluene. Tricky stuff that last bit -- got to be careful when adding that third nitrogen. The WW1 mix produces potassium chloride, but this wouldn't be an issue for the purpose defined above.
Match tips with graphite i.e. pencil lead as a stabilizer may be an interesting "from household items" primer, albeit probably still unsafe.
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navyretired 1
Member
Ya I've been hoping I'd find a set of Corbin dies to make 22 LR into .223 bullets. I honestly don't know why I've kept spent primers, never heard of makeing gas checks out of them.
Does your chemistry knowledge include what wood match heads made of? Inquiring minds must know.
Does your chemistry knowledge include what wood match heads made of? Inquiring minds must know.
loadedround
Member
As a retired chemical enginner I have to state that you would be risking a catastrophe to yourself and property in attempting to manufacture primer compound to refill spent primers. The big boys(primer manufacturers) use explosion controlled buildings and explosion proof equipment working again under controlled conditions that an individual could never duplicate. Also one could not buy the necessary chemicals needed without a license to manufacture explosives. Ever wonder why Dupont got out of the black powder and smokless powder business in the past twenty five years...one word.....numerous "Kabooms! Don't even think about it.
HankB
Member
For the amateur, the "easiest" way to make primers (aside from minor issues like toxicity and unplanned explosions) would be to go back to the 19th century and duplicate the mixture in percussion caps; it should be possible to manufacture fulminate of mercury in your basement or garage.
(Please tell me you're not my neighbor.)
(Please tell me you're not my neighbor.)
USSR
Member
Hmm, working with explosive material to fashion something I can buy for $.03 - I think I'm gonna have to pass on this.
Don
Don
Not to mention the fact that the primer cup has been deformed to a degree that reorming may be a good stepping stone to disaster. If we get to a "Mad Max" type senario where there is no ammo to be had, then down loaded lower pressure ammo and a good set of protective glasses would be a goood idea, but not before then. Did anyone mention the corrosive part. Here on the humid eastern shore one O/N with out cleaning can ruin a barrel.!!!
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
You'll shoot your eye out kid!
Seriously, a spent primer has all the goody used up in more ways then one.
For instance, the primer cup begin as virgin metal at a uniform thickness of .020" - .025", and a known hardness.
After firing, the cup is thinner from flattening & stretching to fill the primer pocket, and more likely to fail due to work hardening during the previous firing, and beating out the dent before you could reload it again.
At that point, you are dealing with a primer cup of unknown thickness or hardness.
rc
Seriously, a spent primer has all the goody used up in more ways then one.
For instance, the primer cup begin as virgin metal at a uniform thickness of .020" - .025", and a known hardness.
After firing, the cup is thinner from flattening & stretching to fill the primer pocket, and more likely to fail due to work hardening during the previous firing, and beating out the dent before you could reload it again.
At that point, you are dealing with a primer cup of unknown thickness or hardness.
rc
Basically the WW1 mix plus a few others I don't recall at the moment...but about half red phosphorus, which obviously makes a rather acute difference.
Um, don't you think that's slight overkill for amount we're taking about here. I doubt, for example, you take the above precaution for any matches you own.
HankB, there are some issues with mercury fulminate. No reason to not go with a newer formation. I would however consider a Lead Styphnate, Lead Azide route best left to a level2 project.
rogn, if you shoot milsurplus corrosive, I've heard windex is a good option.
Very good points about the primer cup! The last thing you'd want is the firing pin or sticker piercing the cup. Then again though, some guys advocate DA so you can rewack (technical term
) a round that's failed to go off. Fresh ones could swaged without too much trouble.Well apparently noone here's done anything like this, and I didn't really expect it necessarily, but I at least hoped to get a link or two to a rocketry or chemistry forum. I'll just do some looking around. On a side note, free climbing is imho nuts, but some guys like it. I would enjoy a bit of chemistry action after a hiatus. Guess it's really just what risk you're willing to address for something you enjoy. Best Regards
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Well, I am assuming (and you know what that means) that Dannix is talking about a true TEOTWAWKI situation and not just doing this for daily use at the range. I am all for ideas regarding this as in that situation Wolf primers won't be $30 a box or there won't be ANY primers period. Some ideas RESPONSIBLY discussed could be beneficial with the understanding that NO ONE in their right mind would be trying to do this unless it were a true life and death situation. I would also assume that people would use all their commercially made primers first and we would be left with primer cups of unknown thickness and anvils that are deformed.
I don't know about reshaping the anvils, but as for the primer cups, a military deswagging tool that is carefully polished down the proper amount of a new primer cup thickness with the fired primer cup inverted over it might be a good starting point. My idea would be to invert the fired primer in a cartridge primer pocket and use the modified swagger inside the now inverted primer cup to uniform it INSIDE the primer pocket. Then you would need to decap the cartridge to recover the now uniformed primer cup.
This could be something to try first with no risk of kabooms, but with the result of a reformed primer cup.
Once again just for discussion, I in NO WAY advocate the "reloading" of primers, but am interested in the line of thought.
I don't know about reshaping the anvils, but as for the primer cups, a military deswagging tool that is carefully polished down the proper amount of a new primer cup thickness with the fired primer cup inverted over it might be a good starting point. My idea would be to invert the fired primer in a cartridge primer pocket and use the modified swagger inside the now inverted primer cup to uniform it INSIDE the primer pocket. Then you would need to decap the cartridge to recover the now uniformed primer cup.
This could be something to try first with no risk of kabooms, but with the result of a reformed primer cup.
Once again just for discussion, I in NO WAY advocate the "reloading" of primers, but am interested in the line of thought.
navyretired 1
Member
I wasn't advocating making them just saying their is info out their and you can find on the net. It's got to get real bad before I try that , but that don't mean its not possible.
Wow, a ray of light. Thanks madd0c. I'm learning there is another extreme besides the mall ninja "yeah, I do that all the time" is the "ZOMG! Your crazy" thought.
I've learned to not bring up a few topics here because the only response you get is responses like the "you can get primers for $.03" posts here. I'll just tack this onto that list and find a niche community elsewhere for it. Best regards though, I just should have anticipated the response.
I've learned to not bring up a few topics here because the only response you get is responses like the "you can get primers for $.03" posts here. I'll just tack this onto that list and find a niche community elsewhere for it. Best regards though, I just should have anticipated the response.
USSR
Member
eastbank
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when primers were 14.95 a brick i bought 10 bricks,10,000 primers and i keep them in ammo cans with the rubber seal in the lid. when i use 2000 or so i start to look for a good buy of 2000 more. for the doomsday case i have 5 flintlocks,a shotgun and four rifles with a quart can full of black english flints along with molds to make balls. tho i have made caps for my caplocks with barn burner match heads, they do work but not at 100 percent, but if i fill the nipple up to the top with 4f they will work well enough to use in a emergency. i think if you were to use black powder say in a 3030 or 4570 (not heavy loads) with home made primers it would be ok. eastbank.
i brought this up years ago because my grandfather said when he was a kid, they used to 'reload' their primers all the time.
walking across the street is dangerous. so is reloading.
i'm not interested in reloading primers myself yet because i have so many. but i'm glad the info on how to do it is available.
walking across the street is dangerous. so is reloading.
i'm not interested in reloading primers myself yet because i have so many. but i'm glad the info on how to do it is available.
Joe Demko
Member
I had a bunch of chemistry classes as an undergrad and also taught it at the high school level along the way. My first wife was a working chemist while we were together. I've spent my share of time in laboratories doing "chemistry stuff."
If I were going to try something like this, I'd obtain the necessary chemicals and lab equipment and have a go at it now, for several reasons. First, there is still good medical treatment and ambulance service available if you catastrophically mess up. Secondly, chemistry_done right_involves precise measurement, precise temperature controls, and reagents of known concentrations and purity. Screwing up on those things can give you a product that just doesn't work, isn't the product you meant to get, waste chemicals, or give you the catastrophic failure mentioned above. Going about something like this is not a project to be done half-assedly. If you can make your priming compound safely and successfully with lab-grade equipment and chemicals, then you can start fantasizing about having a go at doing it with Mad Max-style field expedients.
Priming compounds are not something where you want to be Johnny Jerk-Off when producing and handling them. Be resolved to do it right or don't do it all.
A good bit of reading about general chemistry and refreshers on lab techiques is, IMO, mandatory before purchasing even your first beaker.
If I were going to try something like this, I'd obtain the necessary chemicals and lab equipment and have a go at it now, for several reasons. First, there is still good medical treatment and ambulance service available if you catastrophically mess up. Secondly, chemistry_done right_involves precise measurement, precise temperature controls, and reagents of known concentrations and purity. Screwing up on those things can give you a product that just doesn't work, isn't the product you meant to get, waste chemicals, or give you the catastrophic failure mentioned above. Going about something like this is not a project to be done half-assedly. If you can make your priming compound safely and successfully with lab-grade equipment and chemicals, then you can start fantasizing about having a go at doing it with Mad Max-style field expedients.
Priming compounds are not something where you want to be Johnny Jerk-Off when producing and handling them. Be resolved to do it right or don't do it all.
A good bit of reading about general chemistry and refreshers on lab techiques is, IMO, mandatory before purchasing even your first beaker.
Dannix, Milsurp yup once abt 40 years ago in a nice 7-57 mauser. Couldnt clean right then, but found the damage next AM. Never again in Centerfire--- Point given above a been restated your old primer cup has "tear along dotted line" deformation from FP strike--Only wise course is as above-add technology for forming new cups old anvils should function.
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