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Homemade silencer, trust legal predicament

Discussion in 'Legal' started by hvguy, Feb 11, 2011.

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  1. hvguy

    hvguy Member

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    Hello all! new here.

    I am between a rock and a hard place; I am currently working with a buddy of mine temporarily in the NC area, I am from houston tx and frankly, I cant wait to get back ;)

    When I traveled up here, I brought my walther P22 with me in hopes that Ill get some time off and get around to making a silencer for it since ill have access to an entire machine shop.

    Thats all fine and dandy however, I need for it to be legal; which is where my problem begins.

    I have done a TON of reading around and I believe that I need to fill out these forms with a signature of some CLEO, fingerprints, mug shot and submit my 200$ and wait around for a 4 month minimum.

    now... was this all supposed to be done before or after it is constructed... and I see on the form im supposed to put in a serial number... do I make one up? what if its the same as joe-blows 9mm ?

    I also was reading somewhere on here that I could form a trust for such an occasion... what will that gain me? And what are the advantages?

    here's the only forms I need to fill out
    http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5330-20.pdf
    http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf


    thanks in advance!

    OH! and 1 last thing, On top of building a silencer, I cut and welded 2 of my stock mags together forming a 25 round extended mag... is this legal? I recall seeing a 40 round drum so I would guess so.. just verifying
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011
  2. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    Your problem began the moment you started building the silencer without an already-issued tax stamp. You should delete your post as soon as possible as it's admission of a federal felony.
     
  3. hvguy

    hvguy Member

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    fixed
     
  4. hvguy

    hvguy Member

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    I believe I have found out most of my info from an antique thread:

    posted from CFO vet:
    1) Decide on which suppressor you want, and agree to a price with your dealer.

    2) Fill out two copies of BATFE Form 5320.4 (aka Form 4), two fingerprint cards (your dealer might do the prints, might have you go to the local PD), and one Certificate of Compliance (stupidest form in history, basically you write your name twice, "United States" once, and sign / date it - you are certifying that you are a US citizen).

    3) Get 2 passport photos (Walgreens, CVS, Wal-Mart all do them fairly cheap) Attach the photos to the Form 4's, using tape, glue, or staples.

    4) Go visit your local CLEO (Chief of Police, Sheriff, or District Attorney), and get them to sign the Form 4's. When you get the Form 4's back from the CLEO, double check to ensure they wrote your name in the appropriate blank, as quite often they don't, at least many CLEO around here don't.

    4a) If your CLEO won't sign, you can form a trust and bypass the CLEO, photos, and fingerprints.

    5) Mail the Form 4's, Fingerprint cards, Certificate of Compliance, and a check for $200 to BATFE - NFA Branch, PO Box 530298, Atlanta, GA 30353-0298.

    6) Wait. About 6 weeks later, BATFE will return a copy of the Form 4, with a stamp affixed to your dealer. They will call you and tell you to get your stuff out of their store.

    7) Make numerous copies of your Form 4. Store the original in a safe place, such as where you keep birth/marriage/death certificates, mortgages, etc. Put copies in your range bag, gun safe, gun cases, and glove compartment. You can also shrink it, laminate it, and keep a copy in your wallet, if you wish. Basically, don't go anywhere with the can , but without a copy of the Form 4.

    but I still have the question about the mags and what the advantage and disadvantage of the trust is, along with the serialization of the can.
     
  5. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Mags are perfectly legal. No question there. (Of course, that's based on the states you mentioned. CA, etc. have different rules.)

    The serial number is whatever you want it to be. The likelihood that you will pick the exact same serial number as another silencer maker in your home town with your exact name are pretty slim -- and your name and location are part of the identification of the 'can.

    The advantages of the trust are primarily that it allows you to forgo the CLEO signature (though this may be eliminated soon anyway) and that it allows several people to be named as members of the trust so that you aren't the only person who can legally be in possession of the device.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011
  6. henschman

    henschman Member

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    Yeah, with a trust you can get by without some of the particularly fascist requirements like fingerprints and mug shot. A trust doesn't have prints or a face.
     
  7. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Wouldn't it have been better to ask if it's legal first, THEN build? What if we'd said no, it's not legal. You'd have admitted to a crime, and had to disassemble or ditch the mag, lest someone report you.

    Think first, then act. It's safer that way.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011
  8. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    If you are not a licensed firearm manufacturer with an SOT, then to keep it legal you must have an approved Form 1 in hand before you make a suppressor, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, etc.
     
  9. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    You need the tax stamp in hand before making an NFA item.

    Yes, make one up. It doesn't matter if the number is the same as someone elses handgun.

    YOU will be the manufacturer and YOU can assign serial numbers.

    You can bet there is a serial number 110 from Smith, Ruger, Winchester, etc. but since they come from different manufacturers, it's not a problem.

    If you go the individual route only you can be in possession of the item once it's built. On a trust, anyone named on the trust can be in possession of the item.

    Also, trusts are commonly used in places where the CLEO will not sign the forms.
     
  10. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    It would seem like a Trust is probably the best approach; but may take more work in the end.

    Recall, OP is temporarily in NC, but resides in Texas. So, which CLEO signs off--NC or TX?

    Now, I haven't the slightest idea if one can execute a Trust from out of one's State of residence. But, I'd be willing to bet it will "want" a trip "home" by OP to file. Possibly another to then submit the NFA form.

    So, anyone done just that? Execute NFA paperwork from outside one's own State? (Talk about needing FOPA for the drive home.)
     
  11. hvguy

    hvguy Member

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    All very good responses.

    I really appreciate everyone's knowledge on the matter.

    It seems ill just write up a trust to not bother with the CLEO, prints etc just to make things easier in the future to own.

    Thanks again for everyone's help.

    /thread
     
  12. quilobo

    quilobo Member

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