Hornady Lock and Load doesn't Lock or Load!

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Spartacus451

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I started using the CAPD (Case Activated Powder Die/Measure) today and found that the vibration of the powder measure working would consistently loosen the die bushing in the press. Eventually this leads to the bushing rising along with the CAPD and that produces a squib load. Luckily I caught it before endagering myself. I checked every station and found out that half of them had partially unlocked and were loose even when fully locked in.

Has anyone else had this problem? Solutions? Thicker o-ring? Oversized die bushings? I really don't want to have to ship the press back...

[RANT]
This is exactly what I have come to expect from the American firearm and reloading industry. I am so sick of buying guns and shooting related products that don't work. I hope they have good warranty service because lord knows I am going to need it. I bet they will make me go through two or three ineffective workarounds (SOP) before they actually replace frame with another equally sloppy one from the refurb pile.
[/RANT]
 
Case Activated Powder Die/Measure. It slides up and down and weighs quite a bit. It has a rotating drum like the RCBS measure (not a sliding bar like the Dillon) and it is extremely tall.

Additonally... they "lost" one of the UPCs for the bullet offer. I sent the UPC for the press and a set of dies taped to each other and they sent it back saying I hadn't included the UPC for the dies. The problem was that the UPC for the press they sent back was not the same one that I gave them! The UPC they sent back was attached to a different much thinner piece of cardboard. I sent it back with a letter of explanation a month ago and I still haven't heard back. None of this is promising.
 
My LNL AP came with four loose bushings, only station 1 locked the dies in place well. Hornady sent me four replacement bushings and only two of those are good. CAPD/M comes loose all the time. So does the expanding die. This, as well as several other problems are why the press is going back to Hornady in the morning.
 
Has anyone else had this problem? Solutions? Thicker o-ring? Oversized die bushings? I really don't want to have to ship the press back...
The powder measure would back-out on mine as well.
I used an over sized o-ring which corrected the problem.
I haven't had any problems with the remaining bushings.
Personally, I don't really care for the LNL bushing system.
It takes me 6 seconds to remove a die from a conventional press.
With the LNL it takes 2 seconds. So I save 4 seconds per die...big deal.
 
We just had a thread about this. Quality control on the bushings is crummy. A thicker O-ring, or (for me) second O-ring will solve your problem.
 
Sounds like either the female die bushing in your press is oversized or the male die bushing on your powder measure die is undersized. Evidentally they've gotten a run of out of spec bushings.

You have two choices:

1. Put a larger o-ring on the bushing. This works, but is probably not the best solution.

2. Call Hornady and get them to send you whichever bushing is out of spec. I suspect they will have researched it by now and figured out where the problem lies and will know which one you need. Replace the problem bushing and check to see if the fit is now the proper tightness.

Your problem should be solved.

Dave
 
I bought a set of ten bushings with the press and I tried two of the unused spares with the powder measure and found that it didn't improve anything. Time to break out the calipers?

I sent Hornady an email and will call if I don't get a response in the next couple of days.
 
My tool head never comes loose :D I looked long and hard at buying a LnL but those bushings concerned me.
 
It's not really a matter for concern, just part of the tweaking process. The male bushings seem pretty consistent, but there's a lot of variation in the females. O-rings provide locking tension in any case, and it's no big deal to go with a different O-ring to make things work right. Guys with other brands of presses face primer feed issues and powder drop inconsistencies. The only wide-spread gripe with the LnL is loose bushings, easily fixed for less than a buck.
 
Try some teflon tape on the threads. Someone at GTR had the same problem and this fixed it.
 
I have had the problem and my first squib ever. Luckily, the next round would not seat so no prob other that the inconvenience.

I'm tempted to make some sort of locking piece that will lock each bushing to the next to prevent the unintentional rotation. It would make it more time consuming to change dies, but at least depths don't have to be redone everytime.
 
It takes me 6 seconds to remove a die from a conventional press.
With the LNL it takes 2 seconds. So I save 4 seconds per die...big deal.

I think your comparison is missing the idea. Remember the additional minutes (and aggravation it might take) to re-setup the die for use without a bushing.

The "big deal" is the bushing allows a 2 second re-insertion and your ready to rock-n-load again. :D

Justin
 
The "big deal" is the bushing allows a 2 second re-insertion and your ready to rock-n-load again.
You can't "rock-n-load" if the bushings work loose. When you're forced to stop the reloading process and find a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place...you ain't saving time.
 
Otto in post #6 said:
It takes me 6 seconds to remove a die from a conventional press. With the LNL it takes 2 seconds. So I save 4 seconds per die...big deal.

Sorry, that was what I was replying to, and that time saving effort was what the engineers at Hornady designed them for. Yes, you are correct in these few and rare occasions there are a problem. But in actual, non-problem arising use, the function of the bushings eliminating the need to "re-adjust" the dies, thus saving a whole lot of time when switching dies back and forth-especially in a single stage press. Come on, you know they are good at what they are designed to do. Please don't make me use any more commas in this post by countering a frustration induced mis-statement with another argument, please, , , ..! :D

Justin
 
No argument intended. But the LnL bushing system doesn't offer any substantial time savings. Screwing a conventional die in-and-out takes no time at all. Even on my single stage press, once my lock rings were set tight, there was never a re-setup of the dies. I could put a die in and out in 15 seconds.
I believe the designers envisioned a way to "sell" more equipment, hence the LNL bushing system. The convenience of the LNL system is marginal, the expense of extra bushings is undeniable.
 
You could talk to Eddie Coyle on NES about it. He has one and loves it. He might have some pointers.
 
Just use a rubberband to keep the powder measure CAPD from rotating and popping out of the bushing.

Hook it from the lower clamp ring to another die, or the mid-level case-feedre mechanism, if you have a case feeder.

Its not a big deal, really. Yes, there should have been a detent or some kind of resistance built into the bushing to require extra effort to rotate the male bushing - that will be LnL version two.

You have to realize the vision of the LnL was not just for the progressive AP press, but the single stage as well. Its a huge convenience for a single stage user to not have to spin out the dies between each process.




adweisbe
Senior Member



Join Date: 07-17-06
Location: MA
Posts: 368 Hornady Lock and Load doesn't Lock or Load!

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I started using the CAPD (Case Activated Powder Die/Measure) today and found that the vibration of the powder measure working would consistently loosen the die bushing in the press. Eventually this leads to the bushing rising along with the CAPD and that produces a squib load. Luckily I caught it before endagering myself. I checked every station and found out that half of them had partially unlocked and were loose even when fully locked in.

Has anyone else had this problem? Solutions? Thicker o-ring? Oversized die bushings? I really don't want to have to ship the press back...
 
Teflon tape did it. Rubber o-rings weren't in the ball park but the tape I could adjust for the wildly varying needs of each station. I kinda wish they had a place for me to wrench on the bushing so I could put more tape and really jam that sucker in there.
 
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I've had one of these presses for several years now. IF your bushings are in tolerance, you guys won't have any of these problems you're having. I strongly suggest you call Hornady and get them to send you in tolerance bushings. There really should be no need to rig up something to get the bushing to lock properly.

ALL (100%) of my LnL Bushings work as promised. Including the recent batch of male bushings I ordered this past year. I suspect the problem is with the female bushings in the presses. If you have bushings that are working correctly, check those against the problem bushings and get Hornady to send you new ones.

I know they'll honor their warranty, they always have with me.

Dave
 
+1 for what Dave said.

If you guys don't cowboy up and get those presses fixed you are never going to like them and continually whine forum about them. Like Dave I have run thousands of rounds through my Hornady AP with one L-n-L bushing coming loose: you have a defect part it occasionally happens with all the manufactures. Once you get the parts replace and press setup and have the aptitude for running and maintaining a progressive press you'll discover that the Hornady AP is a very good and reliable press.

Otto said:
No argument intended. But the LnL bushing system doesn't offer any substantial time savings. Screwing a conventional die in-and-out takes no time at all. Even on my single stage press, once my lock rings were set tight, there was never a re-setup of the dies. I could put a die in and out in 15 seconds.
I believe the designers envisioned a way to "sell" more equipment, hence the LNL bushing system. The convenience of the LNL system is marginal, the expense of extra bushings is undeniable.

Substantial is an arbitrary value. The whole nature of progressive reloading is to maximize your time creating shells and not to waste any of it on nonproductive motions. Granted, screwing in a die is not horribly time consuming but screwing in the powder measure is a pain but not as big of pain as unscrewing it when it has powder in it.
 
I asked Hornady for a refund or a replacement and they refused. They said send the press back and we'll look at it. I already paid for a working press press. It's NIB and it doesn't work and they are expecting me to play the waiting game with them. I am returning the press to MidwayUSA. Hornady will have to explain themselves to them.

Their last chance:
Hello,
I've checked MidwayUSA's return policy and I could just return the whole press for a refund. If I return the press, then I'll also be returning all the Hornady accessories and parts I bought with it. I think it would be better for you, and more convenient for me, for you to send me a new frame with fifteen new bushings that have been checked for proper fit.

Once I have them, I will send you the frame and fifteen bushings that I have now. I do not want to ship the whole press to you and then sit and wait to see whether you will fix my problem, as I have had bad experiences in the past with unethical retailers who simply sit on the item for weeks and then return it unchanged.

If this is impossible for you to do, then I will simply return all the items in my $500+ order. I can't risk the 90 day return window running out while the press is in your hands. Please let me know whether I should process that return, or await the new parts.

Thank you

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:40:18 -0600
>
> Thank you for the note on the LNL AP press. We want to see the press.
> I need you to put the press in a box and I will send UPS to pick it up.
> They think the problem is in the press bushings. We will either
> exchange the press or change the bushings and check them.
> Drop me a note as soon as you have it ready and I will have UPS pick it
> up and bring it to us,
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> To: Webmaster
> Subject: received defective LnL SN 12077
>
> Hi,
> I bought an LnL serial number 12077 and I am having trouble with the die
> bushings working loose. Three out of the five stations have quite a bit
> of slop. The powder measure bushing is so loose that movement of the
> measure causes the bushing to work free after about six cartridges,
> producing a squib load which is EXTREMELY dangerous for the user. I
> tried using a new set of bushings but this did not solve the problem;
> the problem lies in the press itself.
>
> The machine is not usable in this state. I would prefer to exchange it
> for a new press, one hopefully in spec, but a refund would also be
> acceptable. If you choose to do an exchange, please ship the new press,
> along with a return shipping label for the defective press, to:
>

>
> Please let me know whether you will issue a refund or an exchange. I can
> be reached via email or cell phone, .
>
> Cheers

I saw in my bank account that they deposited my check for the free bullets. That is going to further complicate things.
 
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I've had my LnL AP a couple of months now, and done about 3K rounds. The press exceeds my expectations, and I'm more than satisfied. It had a couple of loose bushings. Dealt with that, and it's taken care of. When I got it, it was kinking case retainer springs in a hurry. I discussed it with Hornady, polished a couple of rough edges off the subplate with a dremel wirebrush, and that was fixed. These are not world-class events, just minor stuff which isn't unexpected with a piece of equipment like a progressive press.
 
Their last chance:

It would seem that you've drawn a line in the sand that you're unwilling to back down from.

We want to see the press.
> I need you to put the press in a box and I will send UPS to pick it up.

Hornady is willing to have UPS pick up the press so they can evaluate it, then repair or replace it. All you have to do is box it up. I'd say that would satisfy me. YMMV.

My only experience with Hornady service occurred just last week. I had a stuck case in a .223 new dimension die. During the threading/drilling operation, I bent the de-prime rod, decapper pin, and shattered the expander ball,(drill went through too fast, up into the die). I called, but that cutesy phone system left me hanging. So I e-mailed them last Thursday.

I got a reply on Monday that the assembly I damaged was leaving their plant that day! I already had a zip spindle for Hornady dies,(replaces the collet held rod), but the expander ball is unavailable anywhere, including the Hornady site.
 
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