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Hornady Lock and Load doesn't Lock or Load!

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Spartacus451, Feb 24, 2008.

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  1. Spartacus451

    Spartacus451 Member

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    I started using the CAPD (Case Activated Powder Die/Measure) today and found that the vibration of the powder measure working would consistently loosen the die bushing in the press. Eventually this leads to the bushing rising along with the CAPD and that produces a squib load. Luckily I caught it before endagering myself. I checked every station and found out that half of them had partially unlocked and were loose even when fully locked in.

    Has anyone else had this problem? Solutions? Thicker o-ring? Oversized die bushings? I really don't want to have to ship the press back...

    [RANT]
    This is exactly what I have come to expect from the American firearm and reloading industry. I am so sick of buying guns and shooting related products that don't work. I hope they have good warranty service because lord knows I am going to need it. I bet they will make me go through two or three ineffective workarounds (SOP) before they actually replace frame with another equally sloppy one from the refurb pile.
    [/RANT]
     
  2. SASS#23149

    SASS#23149 Member

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  3. snuffy

    snuffy Member

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    CAPD Case Activated Powder Dispenser.
     
  4. Spartacus451

    Spartacus451 Member

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    Case Activated Powder Die/Measure. It slides up and down and weighs quite a bit. It has a rotating drum like the RCBS measure (not a sliding bar like the Dillon) and it is extremely tall.

    Additonally... they "lost" one of the UPCs for the bullet offer. I sent the UPC for the press and a set of dies taped to each other and they sent it back saying I hadn't included the UPC for the dies. The problem was that the UPC for the press they sent back was not the same one that I gave them! The UPC they sent back was attached to a different much thinner piece of cardboard. I sent it back with a letter of explanation a month ago and I still haven't heard back. None of this is promising.
     
  5. IMtheNRA

    IMtheNRA Member

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    My LNL AP came with four loose bushings, only station 1 locked the dies in place well. Hornady sent me four replacement bushings and only two of those are good. CAPD/M comes loose all the time. So does the expanding die. This, as well as several other problems are why the press is going back to Hornady in the morning.
     
  6. Otto

    Otto Member

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    The powder measure would back-out on mine as well.
    I used an over sized o-ring which corrected the problem.
    I haven't had any problems with the remaining bushings.
    Personally, I don't really care for the LNL bushing system.
    It takes me 6 seconds to remove a die from a conventional press.
    With the LNL it takes 2 seconds. So I save 4 seconds per die...big deal.
     
  7. pinkymingeo

    pinkymingeo Member

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    We just had a thread about this. Quality control on the bushings is crummy. A thicker O-ring, or (for me) second O-ring will solve your problem.
     
  8. DaveInFloweryBranchGA

    DaveInFloweryBranchGA Member

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    Sounds like either the female die bushing in your press is oversized or the male die bushing on your powder measure die is undersized. Evidentally they've gotten a run of out of spec bushings.

    You have two choices:

    1. Put a larger o-ring on the bushing. This works, but is probably not the best solution.

    2. Call Hornady and get them to send you whichever bushing is out of spec. I suspect they will have researched it by now and figured out where the problem lies and will know which one you need. Replace the problem bushing and check to see if the fit is now the proper tightness.

    Your problem should be solved.

    Dave
     
  9. Spartacus451

    Spartacus451 Member

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    I bought a set of ten bushings with the press and I tried two of the unused spares with the powder measure and found that it didn't improve anything. Time to break out the calipers?

    I sent Hornady an email and will call if I don't get a response in the next couple of days.
     
  10. KeithB

    KeithB Member

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    My tool head never comes loose :D I looked long and hard at buying a LnL but those bushings concerned me.
     
  11. pinkymingeo

    pinkymingeo Member

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    It's not really a matter for concern, just part of the tweaking process. The male bushings seem pretty consistent, but there's a lot of variation in the females. O-rings provide locking tension in any case, and it's no big deal to go with a different O-ring to make things work right. Guys with other brands of presses face primer feed issues and powder drop inconsistencies. The only wide-spread gripe with the LnL is loose bushings, easily fixed for less than a buck.
     
  12. mrwilson

    mrwilson Member

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    Try some teflon tape on the threads. Someone at GTR had the same problem and this fixed it.
     
  13. rino451

    rino451 Member

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    I have had the problem and my first squib ever. Luckily, the next round would not seat so no prob other that the inconvenience.

    I'm tempted to make some sort of locking piece that will lock each bushing to the next to prevent the unintentional rotation. It would make it more time consuming to change dies, but at least depths don't have to be redone everytime.
     
  14. Roccobro

    Roccobro Member

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    I think your comparison is missing the idea. Remember the additional minutes (and aggravation it might take) to re-setup the die for use without a bushing.

    The "big deal" is the bushing allows a 2 second re-insertion and your ready to rock-n-load again. :D

    Justin
     
  15. Otto

    Otto Member

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    You can't "rock-n-load" if the bushings work loose. When you're forced to stop the reloading process and find a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place...you ain't saving time.
     
  16. Roccobro

    Roccobro Member

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    Sorry, that was what I was replying to, and that time saving effort was what the engineers at Hornady designed them for. Yes, you are correct in these few and rare occasions there are a problem. But in actual, non-problem arising use, the function of the bushings eliminating the need to "re-adjust" the dies, thus saving a whole lot of time when switching dies back and forth-especially in a single stage press. Come on, you know they are good at what they are designed to do. Please don't make me use any more commas in this post by countering a frustration induced mis-statement with another argument, please, , , ..! :D

    Justin
     
  17. Otto

    Otto Member

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    No argument intended. But the LnL bushing system doesn't offer any substantial time savings. Screwing a conventional die in-and-out takes no time at all. Even on my single stage press, once my lock rings were set tight, there was never a re-setup of the dies. I could put a die in and out in 15 seconds.
    I believe the designers envisioned a way to "sell" more equipment, hence the LNL bushing system. The convenience of the LNL system is marginal, the expense of extra bushings is undeniable.
     
  18. jamz

    jamz Member

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    You could talk to Eddie Coyle on NES about it. He has one and loves it. He might have some pointers.
     
  19. PsychoKnight

    PsychoKnight Member

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    Just use a rubberband to keep the powder measure CAPD from rotating and popping out of the bushing.

    Hook it from the lower clamp ring to another die, or the mid-level case-feedre mechanism, if you have a case feeder.

    Its not a big deal, really. Yes, there should have been a detent or some kind of resistance built into the bushing to require extra effort to rotate the male bushing - that will be LnL version two.

    You have to realize the vision of the LnL was not just for the progressive AP press, but the single stage as well. Its a huge convenience for a single stage user to not have to spin out the dies between each process.




     
  20. Spartacus451

    Spartacus451 Member

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    Teflon tape did it. Rubber o-rings weren't in the ball park but the tape I could adjust for the wildly varying needs of each station. I kinda wish they had a place for me to wrench on the bushing so I could put more tape and really jam that sucker in there.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  21. DaveInFloweryBranchGA

    DaveInFloweryBranchGA Member

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    I've had one of these presses for several years now. IF your bushings are in tolerance, you guys won't have any of these problems you're having. I strongly suggest you call Hornady and get them to send you in tolerance bushings. There really should be no need to rig up something to get the bushing to lock properly.

    ALL (100%) of my LnL Bushings work as promised. Including the recent batch of male bushings I ordered this past year. I suspect the problem is with the female bushings in the presses. If you have bushings that are working correctly, check those against the problem bushings and get Hornady to send you new ones.

    I know they'll honor their warranty, they always have with me.

    Dave
     
  22. Idano

    Idano Member

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    +1 for what Dave said.

    If you guys don't cowboy up and get those presses fixed you are never going to like them and continually whine forum about them. Like Dave I have run thousands of rounds through my Hornady AP with one L-n-L bushing coming loose: you have a defect part it occasionally happens with all the manufactures. Once you get the parts replace and press setup and have the aptitude for running and maintaining a progressive press you'll discover that the Hornady AP is a very good and reliable press.

    Substantial is an arbitrary value. The whole nature of progressive reloading is to maximize your time creating shells and not to waste any of it on nonproductive motions. Granted, screwing in a die is not horribly time consuming but screwing in the powder measure is a pain but not as big of pain as unscrewing it when it has powder in it.
     
  23. Spartacus451

    Spartacus451 Member

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    I asked Hornady for a refund or a replacement and they refused. They said send the press back and we'll look at it. I already paid for a working press press. It's NIB and it doesn't work and they are expecting me to play the waiting game with them. I am returning the press to MidwayUSA. Hornady will have to explain themselves to them.

    Their last chance:
    I saw in my bank account that they deposited my check for the free bullets. That is going to further complicate things.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2014
  24. pinkymingeo

    pinkymingeo Member

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    I've had my LnL AP a couple of months now, and done about 3K rounds. The press exceeds my expectations, and I'm more than satisfied. It had a couple of loose bushings. Dealt with that, and it's taken care of. When I got it, it was kinking case retainer springs in a hurry. I discussed it with Hornady, polished a couple of rough edges off the subplate with a dremel wirebrush, and that was fixed. These are not world-class events, just minor stuff which isn't unexpected with a piece of equipment like a progressive press.
     
  25. snuffy

    snuffy Member

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    It would seem that you've drawn a line in the sand that you're unwilling to back down from.

    Hornady is willing to have UPS pick up the press so they can evaluate it, then repair or replace it. All you have to do is box it up. I'd say that would satisfy me. YMMV.

    My only experience with Hornady service occurred just last week. I had a stuck case in a .223 new dimension die. During the threading/drilling operation, I bent the de-prime rod, decapper pin, and shattered the expander ball,(drill went through too fast, up into the die). I called, but that cutesy phone system left me hanging. So I e-mailed them last Thursday.

    I got a reply on Monday that the assembly I damaged was leaving their plant that day! I already had a zip spindle for Hornady dies,(replaces the collet held rod), but the expander ball is unavailable anywhere, including the Hornady site.
     
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