'HOT' 32 acp ammo

[JR47]

Ghost Walker, thank you, but you'll note that there was zero scientific proof given for the 12" spec.

The probability of needing this extra penetration is a judgment call, but most sensible people believe it is a significant factor and certainly much more important than a very conjectural 1% in theoretical stopping power under ideal conditions. This is the reason the FBI specified the 12 inch minimum penetration even though they (and everybody else in the professional wound ballistics community) are well aware that an 8 inch penetration is usually adequate. Sanow (and others) may make a different judgment on this, but to describe the FBI position as "totally bogus" is both ridiculous and irresponsible.

So, they essentially agreed on the 8" minimum, but then added an arbitrary 50% for intermediate limbs and fat people? Where does that come from in supportable data?

That alone makes the FBI protocols suspect from a scientific view. They picked M&S's data apart (not Sanows alone) for lacking requisite data points, even though the books all preface the conditions that the data was used and based upon. This is, literally, the pot calling the kettle black.

While denigrating the lack of science in the M&S data, the FBI protocols are arbitrary, not scientific. The science all takes place to see that the arbitrary data points are supported. It's also interesting that there has been no follow-on research done to validate the actual data points chosen, after nearly 20 years.

Ever wonder why agencies like the old Border Patrol, and the Secret Service, never adhered to the FBI protocols, if they were so scientifically sound?

Face it, the FBI made arbitrary decisions as to performance parameters, not scientific decisions. They then announced them, and proceeded to "grade" ammunition based on those arbitrary standards. As their, and many other Police agencies ammunition requirements were based on these arbitrary standards, the manufacturers had no choice but to make ammunition that passed the specific tests in order to sell to them.

It's an interesting saga, especially with all of the jargon used to defend the standards, not what caused the standards. GIGO is right.

 

[Ghost Walker]

What can I say? (You're corresponding with someone who despises 90% of the JHP ammo that's presently on the market.) The handgun bullet that will NOT pass-through the target has yet to be invented. Like MacPherson, I'm a great believer in the effects of tissue crush and flattened point configuration.

I am aware of dozens of failures to stop with JHP ammunition; and, I don't care what the laboratory penetration depth might be. Every time a shooter fires off his pistol there's a danger that the bullet is not going to perform as expected. My own solution is, 'crush, penetration, and core hits' with as big a chunk of lead as I'm able to fire quickly and accurately. I am, also, a strong proponent of repetitive fire. (I haven't fired a single shot from a combat pistol in years!)

The best, and only, true pass-through safeguard I know of is Cooper's Safety Rule #4; and, I always practice to lineup and angle for it. If you've got it, take the shot; if you don't, then, try to hold your fire! If you're not absolutely certain try to angle the shot: up, down, or sideways.

Yes, I realize this is too much to expect from an average pistolero. Most shooters simply aren't trained to think or react this way. I carry FMJ ammo; I'm not average; but, I am moral; and, I've conditioned myself to act like this whenever I point a pistol.

 

[96wa6]

I don't know if anyone else has chronoed .32s, but I did with Winchester White Box (Mil style) FMJ and RWS FMJ I got a while back (3 years?) from a surplus outfit. I chronoed because the RWS made my Walther PP kick like a .41 mag. Chronoed on a fall day, about 65 degrees, chrono 3 feet from muzzle.

Win. White Box: avg. 10 shots 860 fps

RWS: avg. 10 shots 1050 fps(!!!!!!!!!!!!) that's 22% faster!

Then I tried it in my KelTec K32. No increase in kick from Whitebox. Gotta love the locked breech.

DO NOT USE RWS in Beretta Tom Cats. Those are a little light to begin with and had (don't know if they still do) a 1000-rd. service life.

I gave a box of RWS to each friend who has a K32. We save it for defense loads, since I can't seem to find it any more.

 

[jon_in_wv]

When I carried a P32 I used to load the top round of the mag with the Fiocchi 60gr JHP and the rest with Fiocchi 73gr ball. They both were hot for a 32 and both shot to the same point of aim. The chance of rimlock is too great to use JHP in the whole mag without modifying the mags for them.

 

[slowanimation]

Rules of engagement

So often do nice threads degrade into this argument or discussion whichever you prefer seems to occur. It is very simple to me why a .32 is a perfect carry pistol and how it should be applied. Use the following rules and be sensible.

1. Reliability, if it doesn't cycle, rim locks, stove pipes, etc or causes problems of any kind do not use it. A weapon that won't fire is an overpriced paperweights.

2. Liability, what is going to happen after the bullet hits the target? 12" of penetration? 14" of penetration, penetrate right on thru the guy your shooting into an innocent person and see how the jury feels about that one. So an excessive load is not needed. Why? See rule three.

3. Shot placement. Shoot them in the head and make it a double tap. Nothing excessive just two small holes, with a reliable FMJ at a reasonable velocity. Your aggressor will fall down and die shortly there after, this is optimum. He can't sue you if he's dead (this day and age it happens) and the jury won't go nuts on you like they will if you unloaded your whole clip into the poor guys chest and then started pistol whipping him because he just wouldn't die. Don't aim center mass with a .32. My personal opinion is don't aim center mass in almost any handgun fight.

4. Practice practice practice. If you have ever shot some larger caliber pocket pistols this concept of practice is not enjoyable. If I want to shoot a 9mm I grab my G17 not a tiny little pocket rocket. I put a few hundred round down range daily and a 9 mm pocket pistol and hundreds of rounds is just stupid if you aske me.

So why is the .32 a perfect pocket caliber? Low recoil makes for ease of shooting, and easier second shot placement. Makes for a light gun that you will carry and it draws quickly. A .45 at home vs. a .32 in your pocket which one wins? A .32 in the face with a quick draw or a .45 in the chest on a slow draw? Ok I'm done ranting. One last thing... aim for the head...

 

[outerlimit]

Fiocchi's 73gr. FMJ is an excellent choice for .32acp. Their 60gr. HP is not a terrible choice either. I'm not much of a .32 auto fan, but I wish they made a 73gr. HP round.

I can't think of any .32acp rounds from other major manufactures that are self defense worthy as all are loaded pretty weak and have light weight hollowpoints. Most of the other good ones are made by smaller ammunition companies like Buffalo Bore, Corbon and RBCD.

 

[MICHAEL T]

Anybody selling you hollowpoints in 32 acp just doesn't "understand" that if you can't penetrate 12 inches with at least 450 fpe, those hollowpoints may not expand. All that fancy ultra fast stuff is just going to piss off an attacker instead of getting him/her to stop, drop, and flee.

That 450 leaves out a lot of 45acp to.
My father was in a disagreement with a guy He shot my father with a 32 auto . Who really lost interest in the disagreement after that
I carry Corbon im our 32 kel Tec's if I must use ball S&B has proven relieable in mine. FBI said 10" moved to 12 after miami shoot out belive border Patrol still at 10 " If 12" is all important then use a 25 auto it has gone 16+ in the jell. neets FBI But people will now find a different excuse can't carry a 25 now can we.

 

[GRIZ22]

If you feel you need a +P or +P+ 32 ACP why don't you go to a 380.

Ammo would not be for range use so wear and tear would not be a factor.


If your slide blew off in a fight wear and tear would certainly be a factor.

RBCD 32 ACP is a 37 gr. , TFSP at 1815 fps / 271 flbs with 8" of penetration, although GoldenLoki shows 11.4"

I'm sure that penetration is in ballsitic gel but I would have my doubts about that 37 gr bullet penetrating anything hard and having much left in it. That bullet won't likely penetrate that rodeo belt buckle or the gangbanger's large metal cross.

My choice would be the same as GoldenLoki's. Trying to make a 32 into something it's not is futile and can be dangerous.

 

[KBintheSLC]

How about Buffalo Bore

I second that... their 75g Hard Cast Flat Point +P 32 acp loading is awesome. I tested it against my regular carry load, the Fiocchi 73g FMJ. The BB load penetrated about 20% deeper into the test medium, and made a larger permanent wound cavity due to the semi-wadcutter design.
I am also quite fond of the Corbon 60g JHP as far as expanding ammo is concerned. I still use the Fiocchi in my mags, but the top of the stack and the chamber hold the BB 75g'ers.

Though it would not be my first choice if I KNOW I am going into combat, the 32acp makes a great CCW weapon with the right ammo.

 

[cat9x]

3. Shot placement. Shoot them in the head and make it a double tap. Nothing excessive just two small holes, with a reliable FMJ at a reasonable velocity. Your aggressor will fall down and die shortly there after, this is optimum. He can't sue you if he's dead (this day and age it happens) and the jury won't go nuts on you like they will if you unloaded your whole clip into the poor guys chest and then started pistol whipping him because he just wouldn't die. Don't aim center mass with a .32. My personal opinion is don't aim center mass in almost any handgun fight.

I consider that moronic. We're talking about pocket pistols, some of which are manufactured without sights. You're not going to take time to aim for a head shot, which is a small target area to start with, you're going to shoot at the largest area, center mass. This is common sense. That whole passage screams "but I read it in a book, it must be true".

 

[KBintheSLC]

I consider that moronic. We're talking about pocket pistols, some of which are manufactured without sights. You're not going to take time to aim for a head shot, which is a small target area to start with, you're going to shoot at the largest area, center mass. This is common sense. That whole passage screams "but I read it in a book, it must be true".

Thats interesting... my P32 does have sights, and I do use them to aim. The result is a half-way decent group at 7 yards (21ft). At that range, a head shot is not that far fetched.

And no... I did not "read it in a book".

 

[BushyGuy]

i use 60 gr Winchester Silvertips in my 3032 Tomcat, they work well but is 6 to 8 inches of penetration enough to stop the bad guy? i dont like FMJ cuz they dont have a good SD and no crush cavitation in a fmj like a Silvertip.

 

[benderx4]

My Seecamp loves to eat any of the following:

Winchester Silvertips
Hornady XTPs
Speer Gold Dot

I plan on giving that Fiocchi a try when I can find some.

 

[outerlimit]

i use 60 gr Winchester Silvertips in my 3032 Tomcat, they work well but is 6 to 8 inches of penetration enough to stop the bad guy? i dont like FMJ cuz they dont have a good SD and no crush cavitation in a fmj like a Silvertip.

Hmmm.. 'maybe'. I'd be suspect of their ability to pass through ribs/breastplate in order to incapacitate an attacker. .32/.380 is just not the way to go IMO. A bare minimum gun should at least be a sub-compact 9x19.

 

[cocojo]

I carry either RWS or FN flat nose fmj. I like the flat nose style bullet alot.
You have to get in deep enough to do damage where it counts, and it seems no company has come out with an HP that does that yet. I would like to see 32 acp in the critical defense line of ammo. I would settle for 10 inch min but no less than that, I like deeper.

 

[-v-]

If I recall, S&B .32ACP FMJ is the hotter/hottest stuff out there. As far as .32 goes, if you want adequate penetration, you will need to go with FMJ or FMJTC type rounds. That and .32" versus .40" diameter doesn't seem like that big a difference, but 6-8" versus 12-14" is much more noticeable. At the end of the day, have the round that can reach deep enough to do damage, worry about an extra .08" larger diameter later.

That and practice, practice, practice!

.32ACP Gel tests