1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

House Bill 2228...Thoughts

Discussion in 'Legal' started by gregormeister, Dec 18, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. gregormeister

    gregormeister Member

    Jul 18, 2008
    What are your thoughts on this, and do you think they'll suceed on this bill?



    No. 2228 Session of 2008






    AN ACT

    1 Providing for encoded ammunition; imposing duties on
    2 manufacturers, sellers and owners of ammunition; providing
    3 for the powers and duties of the Commissioner of the
    4 Pennsylvania State Police and the Secretary of Revenue;
    5 establishing the encoded ammunition database and the Encoded
    6 Ammunition Database Fund; imposing a tax; and imposing
    7 penalties.

    8 The General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
    9 hereby enacts as follows:
    10 CHAPTER 1
    12 Section 101. Short title.
    13 This act shall be known and may be cited as the Encoded
    14 Ammunition Act.
    15 Section 102. Definitions.
    16 The following words and phrases when used in this act shall
    17 have the meanings given to them in this section unless the
    18 context clearly indicates otherwise:
    19 "Commissioner." The Commissioner of Pennsylvania State


    1 Police.
    2 "Encoded ammunition." Ammunition that is encoded by a
    3 manufacturer under section 301.
    4 "Encoded ammunition database" or "database." The encoded
    5 ammunition database established under section 303.
    6 "Encoded ammunition database tax" or "tax." The encoded
    7 ammunition database tax established under Chapter 5.
    8 "Manufacturer." A person who possesses a Federal license to
    9 engage in the business of manufacturing ammunition for sale or
    10 distribution.
    11 "Regulated firearm." A firearm as defined in 18 Pa.C.S. §
    12 6102 (relating to definitions).
    13 "Seller." A seller of encoded ammunition in this
    14 Commonwealth.
    15 CHAPTER 3
    17 Section 301. Duty of manufacturers to encode ammunition.
    18 (a) General rule.--A manufacturer shall encode ammunition
    19 provided for retail sale for regulated firearms in a manner that
    20 the commissioner establishes, so that:
    21 (1) The base of the bullet and the inside of the
    22 cartridge casings of each round in a box of ammunition are
    23 encoded with the same serial number.
    24 (2) Each serial number is encoded in such a manner that
    25 it is highly likely to permit identification after ammunition
    26 discharge and bullet impact.
    27 (3) The outside of each box of ammunition is labeled
    28 with the name of the manufacturer and the same serial number
    29 used on the cartridge casings and bases of bullets contained
    30 in the box.
    20080H2228B3188 - 2 -


    1 (b) Labeling per box.--Ammunition contained in one
    2 ammunition box may not be labeled with the same serial number as
    3 the ammunition contained in any other ammunition box from the
    4 same manufacturer.
    5 Section 302. Duty of owner to dispose of ammunition.
    6 On or before January 1, 2010, an owner of ammunition for use
    7 in a regulated firearm that is not encoded by the manufacturer
    8 in accordance with section 301 shall dispose of the ammunition.
    9 Section 303. Encoded ammunition database.
    10 (a) Duty of commissioner to establish.--One year after the
    11 effective date of this section, the commissioner shall establish
    12 and maintain an encoded ammunition database.
    13 (b) Duty of manufacturers to provide information.--A
    14 manufacturer that does business in this Commonwealth shall
    15 provide the commissioner for inclusion in the database:
    16 (1) The name and address of the manufacturer.
    17 (2) The serial numbers of the ammunition offered for
    18 sale for regulated firearms in this Commonwealth.
    19 (3) Other information that the commissioner considers
    20 necessary.
    21 (c) Duty of seller to provide information.--A seller shall
    22 provide the commissioner for inclusion in the database:
    23 (1) The date of each ammunition purchase.
    24 (2) The name and date of birth of each purchaser of
    25 ammunition.
    26 (3) The driver's license number of the purchaser or
    27 other number issued to the purchaser by the Federal or State
    28 government.
    29 (4) The serial numbers of all ammunition for regulated
    30 firearms bought by the purchaser.
    20080H2228B3188 - 3 -


    1 (5) Any other information that the commissioner
    2 considers necessary.
    3 Section 304. Seller recordkeeping requirement.
    4 A seller shall maintain copies of all records submitted to
    5 the commissioner under section 303 for at least three years
    6 after the date of sale.
    7 Section 305. Funding for database.
    8 The encoded ammunition database shall be funded by the
    9 encoded ammunition database tax.
    10 Section 306. Penalties.
    11 (a) Sellers and others who destroy encoding.--
    12 (1) A seller that violates this chapter commits a
    13 misdemeanor of the third degree.
    14 (2) A person who willfully destroys or otherwise renders
    15 unreadable the information encoded on ammunition required
    16 under this act commits a misdemeanor of the third degree.
    17 (b) Manufacturers.--A manufacturer that violates this act is
    18 subject to a civil fine to be imposed by the commissioner not to
    19 exceed:
    20 (1) $1,000 for a first violation.
    21 (2) $5,000 for a second violation.
    22 (3) $10,000 for a third or subsequent violation.
    23 CHAPTER 5
    25 Section 501. Imposition of tax.
    26 (a) General rule.--Except as otherwise provided under
    27 subsection (b) and subject to the provisions of subsection (c),
    28 in addition to any other tax imposed under law, a tax of 5¢ per
    29 round of encoded ammunition is imposed on the sale at retail or
    30 use of encoded ammunition in this Commonwealth.
    20080H2228B3188 - 4 -


    1 (b) Exception.--Subsection (a) shall not apply to a sale of
    2 encoded ammunition to a police force or other agency of the
    3 United States, any state or a political subdivision of any
    4 state.
    5 (c) Retention of collection fee.--A person who timely files
    6 a tax return is allowed, for the expense of collecting and
    7 paying the tax, a credit equal to 0.5% of the gross amount of
    8 the tax that the person is required to pay to the Commonwealth
    9 under this chapter.
    10 Section 502. Presumption and burden of proof.
    11 (a) General rule.--A rebuttable presumption exists that a
    12 sale of encoded ammunition in this Commonwealth is subject to
    13 the tax.
    14 (b) Person who has burden of proof.--The person required to
    15 pay the tax has the burden of proving that a sale of encoded
    16 ammunition in this Commonwealth is not subject to the tax.
    17 Section 503. Collection and deposit of tax.
    18 (a) Duties of Secretary of Revenue.--The Secretary of
    19 Revenue of the Commonwealth shall collect the tax in the same
    20 manner as the tax imposed under Article III of the act of March
    21 4, 1971 (P.L.6, No.2), known as the Tax Reform Code of 1971, and
    22 shall deposit the tax into the fund established under subsection
    23 (b).
    24 (b) Encoded Ammunition Database Fund.--The Encoded
    25 Ammunition Database Fund is hereby established in the State
    26 Treasury. The moneys of the fund shall be used only to pay for
    27 the expense of implementing and administering the database.
    28 Section 504. Tax returns to be filed.
    29 (a) Duty of purchaser.--
    30 (1) A purchaser who fails to pay to the seller on a
    20080H2228B3188 - 5 -


    1 purchase or use subject to the tax as required under this
    2 chapter shall complete and file with the Secretary of Revenue
    3 an encoded ammunition database tax return on or before the
    4 21st day of the month that follows the month in which the
    5 purchaser makes that purchase or use.
    6 (2) A return filed by a purchaser under this subsection
    7 shall state separately, for encoded ammunition, for the
    8 period the return covers, the number of rounds of the encoded
    9 ammunition subject to the tax and the tax due.
    10 (b) Duty of seller.--
    11 (1) Each seller shall complete and file with the
    12 Secretary of Revenue an ammunition database tax return on or
    13 before the 21st day of the month that follows the month in
    14 which the seller makes a retail sale for use of encoded
    15 ammunition.
    16 (2) A return filed by a seller under this subsection
    17 shall state separately, for encoded ammunition, for the
    18 period the return covers, the number of rounds of the encoded
    19 ammunition sold by the dealer and the tax due.
    20 CHAPTER 7
    22 Section 701. Effective date.
    23 This act shall take effect in 60 days.

    L20L18DMS/20080H2228B3188 - 6 -
  2. subknave

    subknave Member

    Aug 27, 2005
    I don't think it could succeed because I don't think it is possible to do. How could you be reasonably sure the bullet would be readable or the pressur and fire from the gunpowder wouldn't erase the information on the casing? Sounds like typical antigun BS.
  3. TimRB

    TimRB Member

    Jan 27, 2004
    So far these bills have failed because they require the implementation of a huge bureaucracy and database which is expensive.

    The lawmakers who promote these things don't care if they are not practical crime-fighting tools; they simply want to make life harder for law-abiding gun owners. On the other hand, they DO care if they have to spend a fortune on their pet project.

  4. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

    Nov 28, 2006
    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    It was introduced in February, and has subsequently died in committee. It will be introduced again in 2009, and will again die in committee.
  5. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Feb 16, 2003
    Ft. Worth
    I suspect even the lawmakers proposing them know they will die, they simply do it so they can tell whatever lobbyist it is that's feeding them that they are "doing something".

    We had one Texas Congresswoman from Houston for a while that was always doing this kind of stuff. She knew she would get laughed out of committee but still, ever session there she was with all these wacky proposals. She eventually got caught up in some kind of ethics scandal but I can't remember the details any more.
  6. damien

    damien Member

    Mar 5, 2007
    Northern IL, USA
    I suspect these bills will continue to die in every state they are introduced in.
  7. Wvladimire

    Wvladimire Member

    May 13, 2006
    Ammunition Accountability Act


    The purpose of this bill is not to make ammunition accountable, but instead it's to make ammunition much more expensive for the working man to afford. States like CA and NY have already passed this bill under a secret Constituion Act meeting. Which means that if 34 states make this a law, then it automatically becomes law and part of the ammendments to the constitution. Make no mistake, this is just a spin to make ammo less available to the masses. Without ammo, your guns are just sticks.
  8. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

    Nov 28, 2006
    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    Where did you get this information?
  9. TimRB

    TimRB Member

    Jan 27, 2004
    "States like CA and NY have already passed this bill under a secret Constituion Act meeting."

    No, they haven't. Sheesh--where do people come up with this stuff?

  10. everallm

    everallm Member

    Jun 6, 2007

    Ease up the pressure of the tin foil.

    There is no such thing as a secret Constituion Act meeting

    There is such a thing as a Constitutional Convention, last one in 1787 which moved America from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution.

    There is no magical number of states that can pass ANY law and have it auomatically become an amendment.

    Read the Constitution before commenting about it.

    Amending the Constitution is a two-part process:

    Amendments must be proposed and then they must be ratified.
    Amendments can be proposed one of two ways. The only way that has been used to date is through a two-thirds majority vote in both houses of Congress. Alternatively, two–thirds of the legislatures of the States can call a Constitutional Convention to consider one or more amendments.
    This second method has never been used, and it is unclear exactly how, in practice, such a Constitutional Convention would work.

    Regardless of how the amendment is proposed, the amendment must be approved by three-fourths of states, a process called ratification.
    Depending on the amendment, this requires either the state legislatures or special state conventions to approve the amendment by simple majority vote.
    Amendments generally go to state legislatures to be ratified, only the Twenty-first Amendment called for special state conventions.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  11. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

    Oct 13, 2005
    Canuck in SE WA State.
    All of these bills are discriminatory against people who cannot attain affordable self defense, and that is how they should be tackled, under discrimination/racist laws. Use the tools at hand to turn this back on the people that sponsor this junk.
  12. Wvladimire

    Wvladimire Member

    May 13, 2006
    For the so called know it all's or government paid debunkers please go here and you will see that yes CA does have these laws.






    So you see, they have enacted these as well as other laws to do a back door gun ban. Also in 2009, gun manufacturer's will be required to put an RFID chip in every firearm that leaves their factories.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2008
  13. TimRB

    TimRB Member

    Jan 27, 2004
    "Also in 2009, gun manufacturer's will be required to put an RFID chip in every firearm that leaves their factories."

    Okay--put the keyboard on the ground and slowly back away.

  14. everallm

    everallm Member

    Jun 6, 2007

    You really should get out a bit more.

    The links you posted relate to

    LA banning .50 cal ammunition in a state that has already banned .50 cal

    The ongoing fight to kill off PR-EXISTING firearms control laws in Chicago

    DC's ongoing and failing attempt to weasel out of an SC ruling overturning their firearms control law

    Duplicate re Chicago

    Duplicate re Chicago

    So you see that the points relate to failures to control

    As for RFID's, please........next you'll be saying they will be broadcasting the location via GPS to satellites of the United Nations backed up by the Illuminati.

    An RFID tag is a teeny weeny, unpowered, extremely short range stock control tag. It needs an external powered reader to work with a typical best case range of between 4 inches and 2 feet.

    They will be disabled by a sharp tap or shock, like ooooooh I don't know.....say the recoil of a firearm.

    To be surreptitious they would have to be hidden inside a firearm.

    Since most firearms, even polymer, still consist mainly of metal they act as a pretty effective Faraday Cage which prevents even close up RFID scanning.
  15. Wvladimire

    Wvladimire Member

    May 13, 2006
    To the debunkers. You have keyboards and fingers, so use ask.com to find out about the info regarding RFID chips in 2009. And again I know you are a paid debunker because only you mention Illuminati, New World Order, and so on. If you are so smart, then please explain why the US military is now being used to help law enforcement inside the United States? They spin it as they are there to help with the jaws of life when there is an auto accident. When the Constitution explicitly forbids the use of the army against US citizens.

    There is also a link to LA enacting the ammunition accountability act. This is true and not made up.

    As far as the RFID chip here is a copy of one article found online.

    I read an interesting blog post discussing a proposed New Jersey law that would require each gun sold to contain a Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) chip with the owners personal information. Tagging guns with RFID chips is a rather bad idea, as discussed below:

    Background information on RFID Tags
    As Wikipedia states, a Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) tag is an object that can be applied to or incorporated into a product, animal, or person for the purpose of identification and tracking using radio waves. Such tags can easily be read from yards away, and with more powerful equipment, one can read such tags from a great distance. These tags are currently used to prevent theft at retail stores, to track and inventory packages, to allow for the identification of lost dogs, and in US passports. While incredibly useful, RFID tags pose a huge privacy problem, as anyone with an RFID scanner can read the tags at a distance - allowing criminals to commit identity theft. After the US government began placing RFID chips in passports, there was this concern about privacy, as well as the possibility of terrorists targeting US citizens abroad for abduction, after reading their passport RFID information. Concerned parties went as far as to put together guides on blocking or destroying RFID tags.

    The problem with putting RFID tags in guns
    As discussed above, RFID tags can be read at a distance by anyone with an RFID tag reader. Such readers are not all that expensive, and can readily be purchased online. A gun with an RFID chip could be read at a distance by a criminal, allowing that criminal to learn the name, address, or other personal information of the citizen. It could also be used by criminals to identify who is lawfully carrying a concealed firearm.
    Also note that the supposed goal of putting RFID chips in guns -having gun easily tied to owners - can be accomplished without the use of RFID tags. The existing serial numbers, or even a small chip that could be read only after being connected to a specialized machine, would allow for gun identification without the huge privacy and safety risks inherent with the use of RFID chips that contain personal information.
  16. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Feb 16, 2003
    Ft. Worth
    And that's your problem. You went from reading about a proposal (that won't pass) in a wack job anti gun state to your statement that all gun makers WILL be required to put an RFID chip in their products.

    It's usually better to stick to facts. If you want to raise awareness of a proposed law change that's fine, but pretending that it's already passed just to get people more worked up doesn't help much.
  17. everallm

    everallm Member

    Jun 6, 2007
    Yes, Wikipedia the font of all truth on the Internet......

    The super secret, build it yourself, long range RFID reader has a circle antennae thats 16 inches in diameter, not exactly secret squirrel. It still only read 'em out to just over a foot


    Them there hand held RFID readers you can buy on the "Net such as for example the Intermec (looks like a phaser and in a most interesting shade of blue) cost about $2K and have an ideal (read unattainable) range of

    Typical Read Range (tag dependent)
    6.09 cm to 304.8 cm (0.2 ft. to 10 ft.)


    Still feel free to compare prices


    Talk to your strengths not some paranoid fantasies.....

    Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go and cash my disinformation paycheck from the Bank of The New World Order and drown some puppies on the way. TTFN
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page