Houston 1911 Colt 9 competition problem

[czhen]

Hi Guys happy 2017
Here we go. I went Des Moine, Iowa to visit my brother in law to start the new year altogether and we went to Bass Pro to buy some sleeping bags and other stuff, when I saw a Colt 9mm the new competition model. I counted by heart all the gift cards I had, the incoming and bingo.
Currently, I am shooting steel challenge once a month with my mark III slab side having so much fun (I've promised to myself do it the during all 2017 and next year jump to big leagues in 9) so, why not have a 1911 in 9 with a good trigger from factory.
When I came back to FL went to my local BP I order one in black with the blue panels.
Long story short, I have with me at home today, but lovely surprise my pistol doesn't allow me to insert the mag totally in if you not actuated the mag release (I wonder what kind of competition Colt was meaning), It release the mag normally, (just a little snug but I can live with it).
Now seriously everything look normal, sound a solid pistol, trigger its not too bad, will improve with usage or converting it to series 70.
I wonder which can be the malfunction on the release button.

PS.: ok, I know the routine it is hard with no pics, heading to work in 1hr, I will added tomorrow.
Thanks in advance, old Henry, FL

 

[Drail]

This is actually a fairly common issue on many 1911s. Your magazine catch is too long or protruding into the magazine well too far and the top edge of the magazine is slamming into the side of it - instead of pushing it aside. The catch works just like a door latch striker. Remove the slide and insert a magazine into the well slowly. The top of the magazine needs to contact the catch on the curved part and not on the flat part. You should be able to see the problem. The solution is to remove the catch, chuck it in a small vise and with a smooth file shorten the tip that latches the magazine in. Maintain the original contour and curve and take a very small amount off at a time and reinstall and check it with a magazine. Go slow - if you take too much off the magazine will not be securely locked into the frame. When you get it to the correct length smooth it with some 320 grit sandpaper. You can also gently radius the top edge of the magazine a little just where it strikes the catch. Shortening the catch will also allow the magazine to release easier. While you have the catch out check and make sure there are no burrs or metal chips in it. The trigger will not improve with usage or with the removal of the Series 80 parts. To get a nice (and safe) trigger the hammer hooks and the sear need to be stoned in a jig to get the correct angles (which almost always requires a new thumb safety to be fit). Good luck.

 

[Olympus]

Or send it back to Colt and let them correct their own mistake on their own dime and time.

 

[Tirod]

This is why 1911's are gunsmith builds - to get them exactly right it takes finessing the parts.

Why don't the makers do it "right" with the parts up front? They won't agree to a tightly defined construction standard and stick to it. In comparison the AR 15 with milspec and TDP forces government bidders to adhere to a standard, And no, it's not "tight clearances" or poppy cock like that. It's an overall spec that defines the part sizes to a small allowable variation in production sizing so that the assembly works within a overall dimensional spec in operation. It's the tolerance stack up and dynamic relationship that isn't getting well controlled on the production floor.

There's another issue which needs to be mentioned - the magazine specs. Obviously Colt missed getting the mag catch to work with the mags shipped - but other mags might not show the issue. It's another dynamic relationship, if the mag is a tad loose or not to a standard dimension, it doesn't push the mag catch to one side and hangs up. M16 mag wells and mags provided by a dozen different makers exhibit this issue - some just don't work in every mag well of the 8 million made world wide. The specification is getting ignored by some makers of lowers and mags which causes the issue. The 1911 never had it that good so the problem is left up to the makers to have the mag catch accommodate a "one size works with the worst case."

Which forces the 1911 makers right back into filing parts to fit. They are going to miss one now and again.

 

[johnmcl]

Czhen,

The problem is correctly diagnosed by Ddrail, good going there. If you are looking for a recommendation, it is to get your pistol back to Colt for problem resolution. This gun, in this condition, should never have left the factory. Keep it mind also that the problem will not fix itself.

Keep us posted, please.

 

[JTQ]

Drail and I discuss this often, over multiple forums.

The gun is not broken. This is how Colt (and I assume other 1911 makers) builds them. Do other makers, specifically semi-custom and custom 1911 makers put more bevel on their mag catches? Sure. Can the mag catch be relieved, yes. Will Colt recognize the issue as a problem and agree to fix it? Maybe, but that's how they build their guns, and have built them this way since the beginning.

Modern shooters for the most part only have experience with double stack guns. All those mags are beveled at the top and gradually push mag catches out of the way. The 1911 mag is straight walled. There is no bevel to the mag. When you insert the mag slowly, and especially with no rounds in the mag, it will often stop. With a full mag, and some momentum during insertion, the mag will insert easily. You don't have to slam them in (Drail will always accuse me of recommending this), but some speed and momentum works wonders.

Think of closing your car door. Can you do it with just one finger and get it to latch? There is also a difference between slamming the car door and closing it with enough momentum to get it to latch.

Here is Tiger McKee inserting mags in his 1911

 

[johnmcl]

Please read what Drail writes here.. "The solution is to remove the catch, chuck it in a small vise and with a smooth file shorten the tip that latches the magazine in. Maintain the original contour and curve and take a very small amount off at a time and reinstall and check it with a magazine."

Are you asserting that the gun is built right under this condition?

 

[Drail]

I am not sure I understand the question. Do you mean "built right" out of the box with the defect or after it is corrected? Most production guns are built (or "assembled") with varying degrees of maintaining the tolerances on the original blueprint. You can either machine the parts slightly under dimension so that they will drop in with no fitting into any frame you make (Colt) - or you can machine all of the parts slightly oversize and pay highly trained employees to reduce them to a perfect fit with files and stones (Baer). That handfitting is why you pay more for a Wilson or Baer or Brown pistol and is the reason they run reliably when you buy them. The old adage about "there are no drop in parts" is true unless you are willing to accept reliability issues that must be fixed and lousy accuracy and terrible triggers. Too many of the 1911 manufacturers are willing to slop 1911s together, sell them, and deal with the unhappy customers later on. Or tell them to just keep shooting it and it will somehow fix itself once it "breaks in". Bill Wilson started his company because he figured out that Colt was either unable or unwilling to build a gun ( a Gold Cup ) that met his requirements for accuracy and reliability and he was frustrated and disgusted with the situation. He was not the first smith to do that by handfitting a gun with precise tolerances, but he set a standard that the majority of factories are still unwilling or unable to meet. Les Baer raised the bar even higher with his "hard fit" pistols but they provide a level of accuracy that most buyers do not need or are not capable of shooting - what he offers is almost a bullseye level pistol. But his guns will maintain that accuracy for a very long time and when used in action shooting competition leaves the shooter with NO excuses whatsoever.

 

[Olympus]

The OP clearly states he cannot insert the mag without also actuating the mag release at the same time. If inserting a mag requires two separate operations to achieve success, then it's not functioning correctly, plain and simple. It should go back to the factory so that it can be returned in a correctly functioning condition. If Colt refuses to accept the pistol back, then shame on them.

Sure, you can do the work yourself and if you have the time and like to tinker then there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But my opinion is that if the mag can't be inserted into a pistol, of any brand, then it should be sent back to the factory to be corrected.

 

[czhen]

Hi guys
Thanks to all for the prompt replys. The issue it is not a small fitting problem, I cannot introduce the mag to make to load it.

Do I have time to fix it, nope.
Do I know how to do it, yeap.
I paid pretty penny for a gun that should run from factory, yeap.

It is very disappointing to all of us that Colt can not ship out a gun called competition ready run (or at least after about break in period), how pass the QA I don't know.

So if RIA, Springfield runs acceptably from factory Colt will keep filling for chapters every 5 years when people stop buying their pistols only for the brand of it.
By the way, my loaded did from day one and I paid about same money some years ago, and mistakenly I picked a the springy when Dan Wesson cost me same coin.

Bass pro will paid both way the travel to factory, I will take advantage of that. Let see how they handle it.
Any way I need to look up for 4 or 5 good mags for it (may be Trip/Wilson/CMC) and play with different bullet weights.

The love story will continue.

P.s.: I was tempted to visit Less Baer at Leclair in Iowa, I couldn't was another 2 hours driving, may be next time on December. I will keep you informed.
Thanks again Henry.

 

[JTQ]

The OP clearly states he cannot insert the mag without also actuating the mag release at the same time.

Drail's seen this story from me before...

Nearly 30 years ago when I bought my first Colt 1911, I had the exact problem the OP had. I could not get the mag to clear the mag catch with one finger pressure like my S&W 4506 would operate. While I was new to 1911's I wasn't new to handguns, and I was sure something was broken on the gun. I took it to the nearest "Colt Authorized Factory Store", explained my problem to the guy behind the counter and handed him the gun and magazines.

He took the gun in one hand, the mag in the other, and slapped the mag into the mag well. It seated perfectly. He said, "Nothing wrong with this gun, Colt's only been making them like this for the past 70 years." The gun still works the same, and nothing has broken, either the mag catch or any of my magazines.

 

[Drail]

Yes but banging a fully loaded magazine into the catch is hard on the feed lips. It's almost in the same category as dropping a slide on empty or flipping the cylinder closed. It may not "break" anything, but the gun and magazines will work better and maintain a closer fit if you don't.

 

[czhen]

I dropped the pistol at basspro tonight before heading to work, guys there were friendly and the manager took care of it no issues whatsoever.
I did not see any reason to hit the mag harder than the usual I do on others pistols e.g.: sigs, cz, bhp s&w etc..
If would do push it will be damage the mag or the release for no reason.

 

[Olympus]

Drail's seen this story from me before...

Nearly 30 years ago when I bought my first Colt 1911, I had the exact problem the OP had. I could not get the mag to clear the mag catch with one finger pressure like my S&W 4506 would operate. While I was new to 1911's I wasn't new to handguns, and I was sure something was broken on the gun. I took it to the nearest "Colt Authorized Factory Store", explained my problem to the guy behind the counter and handed him the gun and magazines.

He took the gun in one hand, the mag in the other, and slapped the mag into the mag well. It seated perfectly. He said, "Nothing wrong with this gun, Colt's only been making them like this for the past 70 years." The gun still works the same, and nothing has broken, either the mag catch or any of my magazines.

Sounds like it needs a little more force than what you're describing. It would be like buying a premium vehicle and not being able to shut the doors without slamming them. This whole "been making that way for 70 years" doesn't fly with me. Shows poor workmanship and lack of respect for the product and the consumer. Do things right to begin with and you don't have any these kind of explanations past on and on like that's some kind of acceptable excuse. Same with the "Colt rattle", been that way for the last 70 years, does it shoot? Then shoot it and enjoy it. Well if course it shoots, the toleranes are so loose it will feed and cycle anything you put in it. If you want something that shoots and is reliable, buy a Glock. I feel like if you pay a pretty good price for a Colt, you should be getting a lot more than just a gun that shoots. Maybe my expectations are too high, but if feed, cycle, shoot is all you expect from a $1000 gun you can get those from a gun at less than half that price.

 

[czhen]

I've always wonder where is the limit for a tight 1911, JMB designed li'l loose to be reliable, knowing the variations of bullet size and others factor. Now Colt has it, hope they make it right, I hate a safe queen, I bought it to shoot steel challenge thinking it woluld have a good triger, FO front sight and a market flooded with parts..

 

[rskent]

I dropped the pistol at basspro tonight before heading to work, guys there were friendly and the manager took care of it no issues whatsoever.

That’s a good reason to buy from a brick and mortar gun shop.

I’m sure Colt will fix you up. It’s unfortunate that in today’s world

companies don’t seem to have the time to give manufactured items

the individual attention that they once did.

I guess that’s what warranties are for.

 

[czhen]

Breaking news on my love story
Three weeks ago was contacted by Bass Pro shop people and Colt explained to them (???) since the hunting season started they backup on the repair dept. telling will take another 2 more weeks. I told BP that Colt can keep the unfire pistol and return my money, BP said they cannot return the money until the pistol is back at the store.
Got another call yesterday that my pistol is at the store, so I went with the empty case 2 mags and manual.
Leaving with my full refund (990.00 + taxes) with sour taste, anyhow after almost months the love story end .
To be or not be, who is gonna get my money now. I want to shoot 9mm steel challenge, I leaning toward the Springfield RO SS (adjustable sight and fiber optic) for 850$ with the new prom of 4 mags sound very good to me any suggestion are welcome.

Henry, FL

 

[tipoc]

Hi Guys happy 2017...

Long story short, I have with me at home today, but lovely surprise my pistol doesn't allow me to insert the mag totally in if you not actuated the mag release (I wonder what kind of competition Colt was meaning), It release the mag normally, (just a little snug but I can live with it).

I read you returned the gun and got your money back. I also see the thread began in Jan. So this is too late and a moot point but I don't understand the problem, maybe I'm misreading. No one should feel any need to reply.

You say that you can't get the mag in the gun unless you "actuated the mag release". But pressing on the mag release and then trying to insert the mag, makes it harder, not easier to insert the magazine.This is followed by you saying that you can get the mag in and it releases the mag normally but just a little snug. What I don't see is that if you can get the mag in and you can get it out where is the issue? Is it that the release is snug? Doesn't the mag drop free? There is something I'm not seeing here.

tipoc

 

[czhen]

tipoc that is correct if did not actuated the mad release the mag did not go in. The mag did not free fall, sadly I did not check the pistol back when I was at BP, just I returned the case, mags, manual, paperwork. I'm sure the mag release was oversize causing all the problems.
So I will place an order for RO springy 9mm SS tomorrow.
It will be a good partner to my SS 1911 Load 45. The love for pony pistol's will not end for it. Some day a blue 1911 Colt will knock my door.

 

[highlander 5]

If I may I have 3 9 mm 1911's and have found that factory mags can be problematic. I have found that Tripp,Wilson and Metalform mags work the best imho. I have a Springfield RO,RIA and a Ruger and they all accept the above mags no problem.

 

[earplug]

Friend has a Rock Island 9MM, I have a STI Trojan 9MM. My Trojan needed work to make me happy. The Rock Island was fine out of the box.
The Rock Island cost a bunch less. That leaves more money for a trigger job, sights, magazines.
Steel is fun.

 

[bannockburn]

highlander 5

I have never had a problem with Colt 9mm 1911 mags. Have used them for many years in my .38 Super to 9mm. conversions.

 

[tipoc]

tipoc that is correct if did not actuated the mad release the mag did not go in. The mag did not free fall, sadly I did not check the pistol back when I was at BP, just I returned the case, mags, manual, paperwork. I'm sure the mag release was oversize causing all the problems.
So I will place an order for RO springy 9mm SS tomorrow.
It will be a good partner to my SS 1911 Load 45. The love for pony pistol's will not end for it. Some day a blue 1911 Colt will knock my door.

Thanks for the reply czhen. An interesting and unusual situation.

 

[czhen]

The colt is on the way to the factory. Yesterday, I acquired the Springfield SS RO 9mm.
Was lurking on my phone at work last night and saw a pic of the pony in 9mm (the mag only went to that position without acting the mag release)

 

[tipoc]

OK. In post number 6 there is a short video of a man properly loading a magazine into his pistol. He begins correctly with the slide locked open, slams a mag into place and then drops the slide in order to chamber a round. I assume this is how you did it.

Too bad the mag would not go into the gun and seat fully. If you can't get the mag fully into the gun then, of course, it won't drop free.