How a HK Love/Hate Relationship has evolved over the years.

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Miami_JBT

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Big Bend of FL, originally from Miami.
I've had a love/hate relationship with HK for a very long time. I was never fan of the USP .45 (co-worker carried one on duty back before the AWB expired instead of our agency's GLOCK) since it just never fit me right and I was deep in the GLOCK Kool-Aid. Hell, I'm still deep in the GLOCK Kool-Aid and honestly I find my Gen 4 G21 and G41 to be fantastic guns.

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But I was a GLOCK guy since Bill Clinton was in office. I also had a legit HK91 and never liked it since it lacked the paddle release and my Springfield Armory M1A just was a "better" rifle. It fit me better. Then tried a Century Arms C93 Sporter and ditched that too. My Ruger Mini-14GB with factory folding stock just did what I wanted better.

But during and between all that time, over a decade ago. I bought a used USP .40 on a whim at Lou's Police Supply in Hialeah, FL. It was under $400 at the time, came with the HK Light, and a three mags. I figured what the hell, if I don't like I'll use it as trade fodder. Well, I liked it. I'm a huge .40 S&W fan and the USP chambered in it was the cat's meow. It fit me right, handled nicely, was a soft shooter,

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I thought that was going to be the one and only HK I'd own.

Next thing I know, I stumble across an old stock new in box SLB 2000 for a damn good price too later on when I moved to North Florida. Bought that and man, what a hell of a rifle! I wish the HK91 was like this rifle. Accurate, reliable, fits me right, etc.... fantastic hunting gun from HK. The last of an era for them.

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Then, back in 2018, Summit Gun Broker had used USP Compacts for under $400 in .40 S&W too. So I snagged that too.

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Another fantastic shooter and carry piece.

This week, I went and stumbled on a really nice VP70Z for under $400 too. I know the history of them, back in the first decade of this century. I worked as a gun counter monkey as a side hustle and was basically paid in store merchandise. It was a nice off duty detail from the usual drudgery of police work.

Anyways, we had a VP70Z under the glass forever and I passed on it back then not because I wasn't interested in the gun. But because I was handing the paycheck back to the shop for other goodies like Pre-1982 S&W Wheel Guns.

Well, I rectified that and snagged this one for cheap and it is now part of the stable.

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In the end, while I'm not fully converted to the church of HK. My relationship has shifted more to love than hate these days. I don't see myself buying everything and anything HK related. But I do see myself enjoying what I have and maybe in the future snagging another HK product like HK4 and a unmodified SL8.
 
One of the biggest problems to me with the neatest guns H&K has made has been spare magazine availability.

That 2000 rifle and VP70 are perfect examples. HKP7s of every variation have scarce and expensive magazines and that gun has one of the biggest cult followings in all of firearms. HK branded accessories have always been pricey to the point of prohibitive. People who like to shoot guns dont gravitate towards HK for these reasons.

And there is always:

HK. Because you suck. And we hate you. | Monster Hunter Nation by one of our own here on THR who has been inactive for quite some time.

Forgot to add the part about the proprietary rails and reverse threading on their barrels.....

Im not a hater, having owned and loved a P7 for many years but I would be very judicious about which gun I bought with HK on the side of it.
 
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The P2000SK has good ergonomics for me. I have casually been on the lookout for one over the years.
 
One of the biggest problems to me with the neatest guns H&K has made has been spare magazine availability.

That 2000 rifle and VP70 are perfect examples. HKP7s of every variation have scarce and expensive magazines and that gun has one of the biggest cult followings in all of firearms. HK branded accessories have always been pricey to the point of prohibitive. People who like to shoot guns dont gravitate towards HK for these reasons.

And there is always:

HK. Because you suck. And we hate you. | Monster Hunter Nation by one of our own here on THR who has been inactive for quite some time.

Forgot to add the part about the proprietary rails and reverse threading on their barrels.....

Im not a hater, having owned and loved a P7 for many years but I would be very judicious about which gun I bought with HK on the side of it.

When the USP first came out, every rail was proprietary. S&W, GLOCK, Walther, SIG, etc.... And yes, mags are an issue for some HK guns. But that's a nature of the beast. Try getting a magazine for a Rasheed Carbine or mags for a S&W 3rd Gen 10mm Auto.

The P7 is strangely one of those guns that I have no interest in whatsoever.
 
The P7 is strangely one of those guns that I have no interest in whatsoever.

The H&K P7 is a strange pistol. A gas retarded blowback. Weird enough to interest me as a curiosity but I never bought one.

Some users complained that after two magazines or more, the original gas cylinder in the area of the front grip gets uncomfortably hot. The P7M8 fixed the problem by installing a plastic heat shield above the trigger guard. I don't believe H&K introduced a maschinenpistole version.
 
The P7 is strangely one of those guns that I have no interest in whatsoever.

The H&K P7 is a strange pistol. A gas retarded blowback. Weird enough to interest me as a curiosity but I never bought one.

Some users complained that after two magazines or more, the original gas cylinder in the area of the front grip gets uncomfortably hot. The P7M8 fixed the problem by installing a plastic heat shield above the trigger guard. I don't believe H&K introduced a maschinenpistole version.
I shot a PSP a number of times. Yeah, it gets got.
 
I completely understand the "love/hate" thing. I have an VP70z that I picked up 30 or so years ago. It's a fun shooter. I've always thought I should get a P7 but not at what they cost. I've shot lots of HKs over the years and they seem to fit me alright. I just think the designers got together and tried to see how ugly they could make something.
 
Glock 21 is stone cold awesome, and the USP looks to be all business with the exception of the warning label that I just cannot get beyond. My opinion that the VP 70 Z is the ugliest factory pistol I have ever seen is likely in the minority based on responses so far; I am overjoyed that you have been willing to give it a home, however.
 
I love my HK's!!

My USP's are the most reliable handguns I own. Admittedly I have fewer rounds through them than my Glocks and 1911's.

I'm really wanting a SP5 and a Full size USP in 9mm. (The compact just doesn't quite fit me as well as I'd like)

If only my 4x4 wasn't taking up all my fun money LOL!
 
I like the P7, have become a fan of the HK-45 and HK-45C, think the P-30 and VP-9 are worthy ... No bone to pick here with the company (well, except that factory support dried up for us a few years into the contract when the company changed directions)

But, as one who was forced to carry, shoot, qualify with and instruct the USP for too long... I absolutely loathe the USP. Cheese-grater front-strap, crap for ergonomics, too heavy, useless proprietary rail, high bore axis, doesn't point well for many, paddle mag release (a slight problem for those who also carry, shoot and compete with other platforms)... we had it confirmed that the USP wasn't a good pistol for LE when, after we switched to simple plastic pistol, qual scores sky-rocketed dramatically.
 
Your rifle is a SL8, not a "B".

Several good gunshops now legally install the original paddle release in the 90-series rifles.

Conelrad
 
Your rifle is a SL8, not a "B".

Several good gunshops now legally install the original paddle release in the 90-series rifles.

Conelrad
Wrong... my rifle is a SLB2000. The SL8 is a semiautomatic version of the G36. The SLB2000 is its own creature.

The name for the rifle in German is Selbstladebüchse 2000, it means semiautomatic rifle, year 2000.

Here's the original catalog cover.

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Here's my article on it.

https://www.newwavefirearms.com/2020/07/the-heckler-koch-slb-2000.html?m=1

http://looserounds.com/2020/07/29/the-heckler-koch-slb-2000/
 
Miami_JBT

Yeah I'm another not so big of an H&K fan. Had an HK91 that was definitely a love/hate relationship in that I loved to hate it with it's expensive and hard to find magazines, parts and accessories, and sight adjustment tool. Or how the stock might have fit a kid with short stubby arms but was so uncomfortable for anyone with normal adult human dimensions. Besides the HK91 I had their SL7 rifle. Slightly better ergos than the HK91 but much worse in the magazine and spare parts department; even a sling was priced into the stratosphere and forget about the scope mounts; I would have had to take out a home equity line of credit to pay for it!

Thought the USP in .40S&W was sure to be a winner but the gun didn't handle well or have a good feel to it. Just seemed too big and too bulky overall. The P9S was better in that respect but was still a bit of a reach to the trigger in DA mode but the SA portion was decent. Accuracy was very good when the stars were properly aligned but an overly tight chamber made for one finicky autoloader for the rounds it didn't like to feed. And the whole roller block action seemed overly complicated for what should have been a simple to maintain service pistol.

Which brings me to the one HK pistol that I thought was unique and revolutionary at the time (still do as a matter of fact): the P7. I have to admit that it's gas action was pretty advanced for someone raised on a steady diet of 1911s. But there were things about it that kind of annoyed me like the squeeze cocker mechanism as I never really did get the hang of it or that it really did get hot after 50 rounds through it. And you had to keep the gas cylinder super clean; even came with a special brush to use on it. No complaints though about the trigger or the accuracy of the gun. That fixed barrel design along with the polygonal rifling made for one sweet shooting gun. At the going prices for P7s it's doubtful I will ever own another, one (unless of course I win the Lottery!), but I certainly wouldn't mind giving it another shot!

Which does sort of bring me full circle as I once again have an HK pistol in the house: a VP9. I came about owning this gun in a rather unusual way but I'm sure glad it happened. I can now honestly say I like HK products and look forward to adding a few more (say something like their P30SK), to my collection!
 
The P2000SK has good ergonomics for me. I have casually been on the lookout for one over the years.
That's the only HK I've ever owned, and likely the last. Mine was a V3. I held the P2000 in a LGS and decided to buy the SK instead because I thought I might carry it. Foolishly, I'd never held an SK. P2000SK, how did I hate thee? Let me count a few ways. ;) It had the most horrible DA trigger of any gun I've ever used. Any. Literally in the 15 - 18 pound range. The SA trigger was equally terrible. The gun felt so plasticky that it was a turnoff for me (a metal gun lover). The decocker when activated felt like a piece of flexing plastic, and the hammer-fall sounded like a Nerf gun. The design of the gun made no sense to me. It felt like the box that a gun with good ergonomics might have been shipped in. And the grip is short despite the gun being overall as tall as guns that provide a full-hand grip. And it holds only 10 rounds but is as large as guns that hold 14 (such as the CZ PCR). Apparently they are more satisfying for other people. :)
 
That's the only HK I've ever owned, and likely the last. Mine was a V3. I held the P2000 in a LGS and decided to buy the SK instead because I thought I might carry it. Foolishly, I'd never held an SK. P2000SK, how did I hate thee? Let me count a few ways. ;) It had the most horrible DA trigger of any gun I've ever used. Any. Literally in the 15 - 18 pound range. The SA trigger was equally terrible. The gun felt so plasticky that it was a turnoff for me (a metal gun lover). The decocker when activated felt like a piece of flexing plastic, and the hammer-fall sounded like a Nerf gun. The design of the gun made no sense to me. It felt like the box that a gun with good ergonomics might have been shipped in. And the grip is short despite the gun being overall as tall as guns that provide a full-hand grip. And it holds only 10 rounds but is as large as guns that hold 14 (such as the CZ PCR). Apparently they are more satisfying for other people. :)

The one I handled had an LEM trigger and it seemed OK. This was years ago though.
 
Have a usp 45, USPc 9mm and had a P2000.

The 45 is nice but a bit big/bulky in my hands.
The 2000 for some reason just was meh.
The USPc I still have and carry.
 
It not for HK I would own almost no guns at all!:rofl: Usually I carry a P2000 V2, and if I'm carrying that it's either a P30 or a VP9. If I'm camping or hiking it's a USPf9. I have or have had dozens of HKs over the years and the only ones that didn't work for me were the USPc models. Over the years I had three of them in different calibers and somehow the hand/gun interface didn't work for me. They ran 100% reliably and over sandbags I could tell they were tack drivers but no matter how much work I put in at the range I never got to where I could shoot them as well as my other HKs. That was a bummer since on paper it's a great gun and the same size as the P2000.

My next HKs will probably be an Optic's Ready VP9 and a P30sk V1 LEM if I can ever find one (at a time when there's money in my pocket:D).
 
If someone would have asked me 15 years ago if I would ever own an HK, the answer would have been a resounding NO. Not sure why, its just I had no interest in them. Now I own a VP40 and 2000SK. Probably two of my most favorite pistols. Slightly oversized for capacity and roll but built for the apocalypse. I wish they would release the SLB 2000. Too few reliable semi hunting options that are not AR's out there.
 
I have only one HK.
Passed on a beater 300 rifle.
Seen some clean ones, at insane prices.

Wanted a P30LS.
Nobody had any.

Then my LGS got a P30L (no safety)............w 8 mags. Used but clean, three of the mags in factory wrapping.
For 500. Yeah, I bought it.

Its OK, usable.
But I'd rather have a VP9.
Reg, not long slide.
And with the cocking indicator blackout plate ($60)

Never cared for the 91 or 93 stuff. Not into ARs either.
FNC para is cool, as ugly or moreso than HK ;)
 
I have a love/hate relationship with HK too. I have used most of their stuff, and am (was) a HK qualified armorer, and it seems like their products are all either heros or zeros, at least for me. IMO, the G3 is an awful rifle, and the worst in its class (comparable to the FAL and M14 of the era) for a number of reasons. Also a massive fail as a sniper rifle (PSG) But that basic design did extremely well when it was in a 9mm SMG (MP5) and as a LMG, where it was modified for belt feed and a quick change barrel (HK21). The MK23 pistol was an overengineered monstrosity of the size that normally befits a desert eagle, or something equally impractical and ridiculous, and was essentially obsolete by the time it was issued (even though I continued to have one in my locker until about 2007). But the general design proved to be a winner when it was scaled down to more normal dimensions and became the USP, which then evolved into some other good pistols over time. I actually liked the P7M8 as a CCW piece, and I wish I still had mine. The biggest issues with it were an unconventional design and the High Kost of manufacture, which HK passed down to the consumer/enduser. I never had the opportunity to mess with the PSP, HK4, or VP70- but I sure would have liked to fire the VP70 in 3 round burst with the accessory stock, just cuz. The HK grenade launchers (HK69 and AG36 GLM) put the US designed 40mm GL's (M79 and M203) to shame in every aspect. In fact, the AG36 has been replacing the M203 in the US mil for some time. I also have some experience with the HK416. It is unquestionably a superior design to the direct gas impingement of the M16 family of rifles- and designed with input by Larry Vickers- a subject matter expert on small arms. It has served well under extreme conditions world-wide, by some of the most demanding users. It has been integrated into the line units of the USMC in various roles. The HK417 has entered US service as well, to replace AR10 based gas impingement sniper system variants. Sadly, this began after I departed the mil, so I have no experience with the 417. I have also heard nothing but good feedback from users of the HK GMG (grenade machine gun). I have even been present when it was employed in actual operations. However, my command selected the Mark 47 AGL, so that is where my experience and bias lies, at least on that class of weapon. I have heard equally positive feedback about the HK MP7, when it is used in the role for which it is designed. I never got to use one, but was present when it was employed by others. All of my experience with that class of weapon is with the FN P90, so again, that is where my bias is.
 
I have one HK in my collection, a USP 45. It's outfitted with an Osprey Suppressor, Venom Red-Dot and a Bi-Pod. When they start to climb over the sea wall, I'm ready. My only complaint in the years that I've had it, was the trigger guard. The raised portion in the middle, would sting my finger. I got out the Dremel tool and 1000 grit paper to smooth things out. No problems now.

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