How a HK Love/Hate Relationship has evolved over the years.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Miami_JBT, Nov 28, 2020.

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  1. George P

    George P member

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    Am I the only one who likes and owns P7s?
     
  2. Miami_JBT

    Miami_JBT Member

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    I'd have bought the P30L for thag price with the mags.
     
  3. Jimbo80

    Jimbo80 Member

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    When HK gets it right they really get it right. A buddy has all the MP5 series subs and I get a good amount of trigger time with them. Short of a Thompson I can't think of a sub gun that's more fun. I own a P7 and a SP5, both are guns HK got really right. They're among the stars of my collection. Poly pistols are all the same to me. I think the other HKs are not worth the premium compared to their competition.
     
  4. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    I have two HK's. An HK-45 and a P30. Years ago I had Model 4. That really peaked my interest in HK and recently picked up the two I have now. The HK-45 is a keeper. I'm still on the fence about the P-30SK LEM. That is one weird trigger but no safeties to fool with. It's a better DAO.

    HK builds excellent pistols. They're just very different.
     
  5. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Miami_JBT: I shot a PSP a number of times. Yeah, it gets hot.

    Looking at the Wikipedia article, the heating problem becomes obvious:
    File: P7 Gas-DelayBBack.PNG From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    P7gassys.jpg

    After the 1972 Munich Olympics Massacre, German police looked to replace the .32 ACP Walther PP with a similarly sized pistol in 9×19mm Parabellum. Requirements:
    _ weigh no more than 1,000 g (35 oz),
    _ not more than 180 × 130 × 34 mm,
    _ a muzzle energy no less than 500 J
    _ a service life of at least 10,000-round
    _ fully ambidextrous
    _ safe to carry loaded chamber on holster or pocket
    _ able to be quickly drawn ready to fire

    Apparently the design requirements did not include extended firing sessions and H&K P7 (PSP) designers went for matching weight, size, energy, durability, ambidextry, safety, ease of use. I presume the typical German policeman armed with a 7.65mm/.32 ACP Walther Polizei Pistole might carry a reload magazine with the holster.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
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  6. Jimbo80

    Jimbo80 Member

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    It may have been one of the reasons (other than cost) the Sig P6 was chosen over the Walther P5 and HK P7 by the vast majority of agencies. Supposedly there are a bunch of surplus P7s in Germany scheduled to be destroyed instead of sold. I don't know if that ever happened but it sure wouldn't have made sense. Those P7s would sell for more than they cost new.
     
  7. George P

    George P member

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    My P7s do not get hot; but then again, I do not do rapid mag dump after mag dump.
     
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  8. DustyGmt

    DustyGmt Member

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    One of the very first handguns I ever shot, possibly the very first, was a .40S&W USP Compact when I was around 10 years old +/-.

    I loved the lines and fit and feel and everything about it. It was my uncles and my uncle has always been a quality snob (he'd say so himself) so I imagined that's what I would get when I was older. An HK USP handgun of some sort. I had no frame of reference to compare it to others and figured if it was good enough for him it was good enough for me. I also remember my uncle saying unfavorable things about Glocks at that time and I definitely wasnt going to have one of those fugly things. HK all the way.

    Fast forward 10 or so years, when I decided to go get myself a handgun, besides the taurus .38 and the Ruger P95 I already had, I'll rephrase, when I had enough $$$ and decided to go get myself what I considered to be a "serious" handgun, I had every intention of going the HK route. Until I decided that I hated the USP trigger and the price of a USP at the time ($900). I started seriously considering one of those fugly Glocks($600). Trigger was more suited to my preference and so was the price. And after a while the looks grew on me and while I still think the HK USP is one seriously formidable combat pistol, the table full of Glocks at the gun show just spoke to me and all the negative things I'd heard about it pretty much evaporated after use.....
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
  9. Miami_JBT

    Miami_JBT Member

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    $600 for a GLOCK?

    Dear lord..... I'll stick with Blue Label pricing thank you very much. I never paid that much for a GLOCK. Not even my G17L amd G24.
     
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  10. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    I can't imagine ever not having a USP in my collection. Yeah, the non-standard rail is a bummer (but unavoidable since the USP came out before the 1913 system was standardized) but I like pretty much everything else about it. In this day and age nearly all service-pistol-sized guns have at least interchangeable backstraps but just by dumb luck the USP feels like it was made for my hand. I would like to convert my USPf9 from the Match configuration to LEM Hybrid Match but beyond that I'm pretty happy with it. Well, that and maybe add a Jet Funnel Kit.:cool:
     
  11. George P

    George P member

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    I agree, never paid more than $350 for one.
     
  12. Miami_JBT

    Miami_JBT Member

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    When the Gen 4 GLOCKs came out, I never used the backstraps. Still haven't to this day.

    Yeah, people complain about the USP not having a standardized light rail. Well, GLOCK other than that G21SF that made for the Joint Combat Pistol Trial has never had a standardized rail either. SIG, GLOCK, HK, S&W, Walther, and FN all had guns with "non-standardized" rails.

    I still find the Beretta 92/96 to be comfortable for me, same with S&W 3rd Gens and Ruger P Series guns.
     
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  13. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    I guess one somewhat legitimate complaint/observation is that HK could change the USP to incorporate the "new" Pic rail. I'm sure that they don't want the expense of retooling, creating another product line and don't want to compete with their newer P-series guns. I'm not 100% sure if I'd buy a new one just to get the standard rail since I already have several rail adapters.
     
  14. Miami_JBT

    Miami_JBT Member

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    Yeah, honestly..... who the hell pays $600 for a GLOCK? That's like paying $400 for a HS2000. Hell, I like HK and I sure as hell won't pay the MSRP for their guns.
     
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  15. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    The rail is the least of the complaints I've heard about the USP over the years while serving as a firearms instructor with an agency that issued the pistol. There are a number of other "legitimate complaint(s)/observation(s)" that come to mind with regard to this pistol (note that I've admitted to being a fan of several other H&K pistols); here's what I said in my first post in the thread:
    I can also add that the size/weight to magazine capacity ratio isn't nearly as favorable as several other comparable full-sized duty pistols.
     
  16. Miami_JBT

    Miami_JBT Member

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    When the USP first came out, 13rds for a DA/SA .40 S&W was actually very competitive. Same with the USP Compact being at 12rds.

    The S&W 4006 and Berett 96FS were only 11rds. The SIG P226 and P229 were 12rds. The S&W 4013 and 4013TSW was 8rds single stack and 9rds double stack. The Ruger P Series Guns were 11rds in .40 S&W. Even the SIG SP2340 (first variant of the SP line) was only 12rds in .40 S&W.

    The size to weight ratio for the USP and USP Compact are actually not bad at all compared to its period competitors back in the 90s when the gun was released. Only GLOCK had a overall "dramatic" higher capacity to weight and size ratio than the competition.

    A big problem the USP has today is that people are comparing it to modern designs like the M&P, P320, PPQ, PX4, and others when the USP was HK's first "modern" design when their competitors were all making what we today consider traditional DA/SA type designs.

    The USP was first penned out on paper in 1989 and was a creature of the 90s. It was released in 1993 and that's 27 years ago.

    It works for me since for the most part, I basically stalled around 2006ish and never really moved forward since then in guns.
     
  17. lightman

    lightman Member

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    I loved the way my H&K 91 was absolutely reliable and very accurate but I hated the way it treated brass. I've never owned one of their handguns.
     
  18. DustyGmt

    DustyGmt Member

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    Yeah I paid $600 for my first two glocks. There was a period back in 2007 that glocks were fetching a premium. I paid $600 for my first two glocks, a 36 and a 17. I dont remember anything particularly crazy in terms of panic buying, I think that was just the going rate around here at the time. I still see them go for upwards of $550-$600 from time to time but all the other glocks I bought in the years since then have been $350-$400. I do remember a time when I was looking for a 17 probably right around 2007ish where I called up every shop in the phonebook, nobody had em. I found one shop almost 2 hours north of me and they had one.....had to have it.
     
  19. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    I like HK's Fun guns to shoot and accurate for me.

    But not all their models suit me. I like the VP9 and P30 series guns. But I really only like the LEM variant hammer guns. The standard trigger sucks compared to my other guns.
     
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  20. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

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    I used to be an HK hater until I learned more about them and started shooting them. Now my Mark 23 is my favorite gun.
     

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  21. lionking

    lionking Member

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    All those threads that ask "if you could just own one handgun?" USP Expert for me.
    usp expert.png
     
  22. Miami_JBT

    Miami_JBT Member

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    Meh.... If I could only own one HK pistol, it would be this.

    tumblr_ouhfffBgMc1s57vgxo4_1280-660x435.jpg
     
  23. SwampWolf

    SwampWolf Member

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    Not a problem for me; I think the USP compares well with all of the current offerings from other companies. I bought my USP 40 shortly after they first came out (it even has "traditional" rifling) and it has proven to be a well-made, accurate and, most importantly, reliable pistol. The USP fits my hand perfectly. My agency made us carry Smith & Wesson "Third Generation" pistols (I've been retired for over twenty years) and they are great pistols for sure but an officer from a neighboring agency reported that he and several of his fellow officers carried USPs by choice (they were allowed to choose with certain liberal guidelines) and they loved them for all the right reasons (the same ones I cited that are important to me).
    No pistol fits everybody well-if the gun doesn't fit, you must quit. ;)
     
  24. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    If the USP's (or P30's/P2000's) DA stacking were known to be mostly cured by a change of Just the mainspring, then I would have bought one of these. And really like the ergonomics.

    But after owning my Walther P99 AS for many months, finally handling a USP again gave me the impression that the P99's (or PPQ's) ergos seem as good.
    And at least the P99 costs a good bit less (plus the trigger guard's "paddle mag release" is longer).

    Nevertheless, I easily see why people might prefer an HK over other guns.
    Had Armslist not recently begun requiring people to undergo a bizarre "financial sign up" process (we know their reason), simply to ask a local seller a Question, I would now own a used USP .40 Compact.

    And the P7--- both single and double-stack types--- must be very cool guns.
    But $2,000-$3,000 for one?
     
  25. str8_4ward

    str8_4ward Member

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    there we have it, absolutely no discrimination, H&K is kicking ass and brass, lol. But only their rifles, the pistols are fine....
     
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