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How accurate are these "battle rifles?''

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by sprice, Jul 27, 2009.

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  1. sprice

    sprice Member

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    How accurate is a springfield loaded m1a with stainless barrel?
    How accurate is a DS arms standard fal?
    How accurate is a ''match grade'' ar-15?

    And the gun I will want in the end is the one that can kill the best and 800-1200 yards.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2009
  2. THE DARK KNIGHT

    THE DARK KNIGHT Member

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    They are all more accurate than most of the people who shoot them.
     
  3. a-sheepdog

    a-sheepdog Member

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    My "Loaded" M1A is MOA with a scope on it. I am not that good with open sights. I had a DSA Fal, it was nice but I never scoped it and the trigger was not that wonderful. I shot about 3" groups at 100 yards with open sights and ball ammo. Probably could have shrunk the groups with the FAL with better ammo. The Match Grade AR should print 1/2 to 3/4 inch all day. My mil-spec AR prints MOA easily. This is limited experience, but hope it helps.
     
  4. Limeyfellow

    Limeyfellow Member

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    A standard battle rifle generally has to have the same accuracy as the military asks for with its AT15s. At least 4 MOA to pass. Most are half that. A Loaded M1A depends on where you got it from as there is no set defined standard. I would expect it to be less than 2MOA, and probably half it. A Match grade AR-15 better be in the 1 MOA or less standard for the money you spend on it.

    Of course ammo choice makes as much difference as anything. It is rather amazing how some people think you can throw any cheap junk down a barrel and expect the same accuracy as hand loaded for the rifle match quality rounds.
     
  5. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

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    I have an M1A Loaded with a stainless barrel.

    With WWB and cheap S&B 147 gr FMJs it will do about 2 MOA prone, slung up, with iron sights, and ~1.2 to 1.5 MOA with 168 gr Hornady Match--all due mostly to the limitations of my eyesight, I imagine. I just put an ARMS 18 on it, but it may still be a while before I have a chance to shoot it with optics. I've shot it out to 600 yards on point targets (16"x32" brown cardboard torso target) and 1100 yards on area targets ("car" sized dirt patch on opposing hillside). Under the conditions which these shots were made, it was abundantly clear that the limitations of the shooter were far more severe than the limitations of the rifle.
     
  6. H2O MAN

    H2O MAN member

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    When did the AR-15 become a battle rifle?
     
  7. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    Rock River Arms guarantees 3/4 MOA or less with match ammo for most of their accuracy-oriented AR's, and tuned AR's shooting 1/2 MOA or less are not uncommon. AR's are probably the most accurate centerfire semiautos on the market, and a decent AR will outshoot a lot of off-the-shelf bolt-actions.
     
  8. lencac

    lencac Member

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    Bingo!!!!!

    All those rifles are capable of wonderful accuracy as the norm and some exceptions even better. If they don't shoot good there is something unusuallly wrong, most likely the shooter.
    Limey hit it correctly. The biggest factor to determine how well this group shoots is the use of quality ammo. Generally surplus is a crap shoot.
     
  9. sprice

    sprice Member

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    ya, i just kinda threw the ar-15 in there because i think a true ''assault rifle'' is fully automatic.
     
  10. Dr_2_B

    Dr_2_B Member

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    I'm strange I guess... if a gun'll shoot minute of bad guy, it's enough for me.
     
  11. tactikel

    tactikel Member

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    My '03-A3 shoots 1.25 MOA with GI sights (and I wear trifocals) :neener:
     
  12. Birdmang

    Birdmang Member

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    What does MOA mean?
     
  13. Bass Killer

    Bass Killer Member

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    A match grade AR15 is for target or small game, not really a battle rifle but is highly accurate. The FAL is deadly and accurate at semi auto. And the Springer M1A takes the cake, its worth every dollar and cent you will spend on it. Its basically the semi auto version of the M14
     
  14. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    "What does MOA mean?"

    Well, the un-tecnical abswer is this; MOA is about 1" at 100 yards, 2" at 200, 3" at 300 yards, and so forth, this is the most baisic answer, sorry I don't know the tecnical version of MOA. :)
     
  15. tactikel

    tactikel Member

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    MOA = minute of angle, which is very close to 1" at 100 yards (not exactly tho)- The Holy Grail of rifles in the pre war era was a 1 MOA rifle. Now they are common place (and in some cases guaranteed!). A 1 MOA battle rifle will keep a round on a head size target at 500 yards :what:- plenty of accuracy for a combat weapon.
     
  16. cameron.personal

    cameron.personal Member

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    My DSA will run 1.25MOA with match ammo and a cool trigger puller.

    Cameron
     
  17. azvarminthunter

    azvarminthunter Member

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    I would say they are pretty accurate. I would agree to the comment made in reply to your post that they are more accurate than most people who shoot them. One rifle which suprised me on its accuracy was the Schmidt-Rubin K 31. I had read prior to buying the rifle that it was accurate, but was suprise as to just how accurate. For the price this rifle makes a nice addition to a collection. The ammo is a bit expense, but worth it.
     
  18. Winston_Smith

    Winston_Smith Member

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    What are the specs on that rifle/optics?
     
  19. RP88

    RP88 Member

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    the average for your stock 'battle rifle' (AR, M4gery, ACR, SCAR, etc.) will be about 1.5-2" MOA. Plenty accurate for any application that they can be used for.

    Your M14 and FAL-types are just as if not slightly more accurate.
     
  20. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    you know, in the absence of experience, there are lots of opinions on this board and no shortage of run-of-the-mill misinformation. but for the life of me, I don't understand how you reach some of these conclusions.
     
  21. happygeek

    happygeek Member

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    submachine gun: auto that shoots pistol caliber rounds
    assault rifle: selective fire rifle that shoots intermediate rounds from a magazine
    battle rifle: rifle that shoots a full size rifle round
    machine gun: auto that's belt fed

    These are the common dictionary term definitions I could find that separate some types of guns. A battle rifle can be selective fire, the distinction between a battle rifle and an assault rifle is the full size rifle round vs the intermediate round. According to the dictionary, to be an assault rifle it has to have selective fire; pistol grips, flash suppressors, muzzle shrouds, the color black, and other scary looking features do not an assault rifle make. If someone in a debate on gun rights in the states actually knows the dictionary definition of an assault rifle (and has fired both assault rifles and battle rifles), chances are they're on the pro-gun side.

    So yes, an AR-15 isn't an assault rifle, but it's not a battle rifle either.

    Note: sorry to run off on a tangent like that, it just irks me how the ignorant side in the gun debate uses terms, hence I'm prone to run off on rants about dictionary definitions of things.

    To get back on topic though, my National Match M1A is a good deal more accurate than I am. I'm doing good to hit half my shots at a man size target at 300m with iron sights, whereas that rifle is capable of hitting a man size target at over 800m.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2009
  22. ScareyH22A

    ScareyH22A Member

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    I wonder what an MP5 will do.
     
  23. Birdmang

    Birdmang Member

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    On COD4 I get 1'MOA from one side of map to the other full auto with my MP5, so I guess they are sweet guns.
     
  24. H2O MAN

    H2O MAN member

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    Your M14 and FAL-types are just as if not slightly more accurate.

    I know the M14 and AR can be equally accurate, but I'm not sure the same can be said for the FAL.
     
  25. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    Minute of Angle, as has already been mentioned; outside of shooting, they are more commonly called arcminutes. 1 MOA or 1 arcminute is equal to 1/60 of a degree, or 1/21600 of a circle. That works out to 1.047 inches at 100 yards, 2.094 inches at 200 yards, 3.142 inches at 300 yards, et cetera.
     
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