How accurately can you shoot a handgun without sighting?

[Monkeyleg]

"Which tactical training schools teach to not use the front sight?"

One portion of Ayoob's Stressfire course involves shooting at close range without using the sights. Of course, if you refer to it as "point shooting," Ayoob hits you.

 

[Correia]

Unfortunately there is a lot of internet conjecture on this subject from people who don't shoot a whole lot. No offense intended.

I will second Zak's recommendation. Read Brian Enos' book. Read the section of focus, otherwise many folks here are talking past each other.

First and most important thing to do, seek out a good instructor. Then practice. Go shoot in action pistol games (IDPA or IPSC) They are just games, not tactical training, but they will teach you how to shoot with speed and accuracy, usually far far better than your average shooter.

It doesn't take many seconds to get into a shooting stance and access your sights. It takes a FRACTION of a second longer to use your sights, but with a massive increase in hit probability. As the range increases, this becomes even more true.

The only time for unsighted fire is at bad breath distance, or maybe if you are inside an elevator with the badguy.

For in the dark, that is what tritium sights and a good flashlight along with training and technique come in.

Lasers are fun, but for most folks, with proper training they can acquire the sights faster than they can find the bouncing dot on the target.

 

[DT Guy]

Why do people come up with all kinds of hyperbole about 'what you'll do in a gunfight'?

I've shot a little IPSC, shot more IDPA and pointed guns at people 'for real.' Stress is stress, and if you train you'll do what you trained yourself to do.

I can clearly remember the sight picture I took when I first pointed my pistol at an offender as an LEO. (Fellow had just threatened to kill his wife with a Taurus 9mm.) COM, front sight sharp and rear sight blurred-just like I trained to do.

If unsighted fire were all the rage, you'd see IDPA being won by guys with no sights on their guns. And before someone starts spewing statisics about the average distance of an armed encounter, consider this:

http://www.thegunzone.com/well-enough.html


Larry

 

[DT Guy]

Why do people come up with all kinds of hyperbole about 'what you'll do in a gunfight'?

I've shot a little IPSC, shot more IDPA and pointed guns at people 'for real.' Stress is stress, and if you train you'll do what you trained yourself to do.

I can clearly remember the sight picture I took when I first pointed my pistol at an offender as an LEO. (Fellow had just threatened to kill his wife with a Taurus 9mm.) COM, front sight sharp and rear sight blurred-just like I trained to do.

If unsighted fire were all the rage, you'd see IDPA being won by guns with no sights on their guns. And before someone starts spewing statisics about the average distance of an armed encounter, consider this:

http://www.thegunzone.com/well-enough.html


Larry

 

[Ryder]

How accurately can you shoot a handgun without sighting?

At 3-4 steps I can hit a paper plate. Might be high left or low center but they hit the plate. Beyond that I use sights.

 

[sturmruger]

I shoot a lot of IPSC matches. I have found targets out to about 10 yards easy to hit with a point style of shooting. This is usually acomplished by walking fast and shooting with both eyes open.

If I had time to prepare and focus on my sights I would definetly use them. If I was jumped or suprised and had to react quickly I would most like shoot back without regard to my front sight.

 

[Horsesense]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=61867&highlight=point+shooting+horsesense

Gunfight failure analyses and corrective measures. (Point shooting video)

eddited to add http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=161135

 

[Taurus 66]

I'm not as accurate as I should be at 15 yards. I take the full blame for not getting better sights.

 

[Sir Aardvark]

Speaking for myself - I practice a lot!

I have found that my S&W J-frame comes up precisely aligned when I lock my arms out in front of me in my normal shooting stance. I can shoot this and hit the target all the time without "aiming", just by "pointing". The shots are all placed well enough to be COM out to 20+ feet.

I spend A LOT of time with the firearms I use for carrying so that I feel comfortable enough that I can shoot them well in a stressful situation.
I've yet to be placed in a "Stressful Situation", and hope I never do, but one of my firearms instructors stated things succinctly:

"When you find yourself in a situation, you will not 'rise to the occasion', you will fall back to your level of training"

 

[Zak Smith]

Speaking for myself - I practice a lot!

I have found that my S&W J-frame comes up precisely aligned when I lock my arms out in front of me in my normal shooting stance. I can shoot this and hit the target all the time without "aiming", just by "pointing". The shots are all placed well enough to be COM out to 20+ feet.

This is not directed at you specifically, but it is a good example--

Can you make hits this way while moving laterally away from someone coming at you with a knife from 21' away?

-z

 

[Adept]

On a related note: Has anyone here tried old west style shooting from the hip? If so, what were the results?

 

[Sir Aardvark]

I have practiced shooting while moving and other "Scenario" type situations. All I can say about that is that I need more practice to keep my skills up.

My first firearms instructor had us work on shooting just after the draw when you got your weak-side hand on the grip (at about the level of your belly) and to shoot as you brought your gun up to your normal firing position. You could usually get off about 3 shots very quickly while doing this before you attained your stance. This was a close quarters skill.

To be honest with everybody here, my S&W J-frame is not my most favorite gun to carry; I am very comfortable with it - that's not the problem - I just feel that I would like to have 11 rounds of .40S&W or 10 rounds of .45ACP if shooting became necessary. But... small, lightweight, easily concealed handguns will always have their place, and, as has been mentioned here in the past, having some sort of firearm is better than having none.

 

[AStone]

Extremes

Just before beginning to read this thread, I left another one (actually driven away by some amount of boredom) about hitting a target with your SHTF rifle at 600 yards.

Speaking ONLY for myself - kudos to those who want to try to hit things at 600 yds - I find this thread more interesting, realistic & relevant.

As for me, if something or someone is threatening me from 600 yds, my plan is to stay low & go the other direction. (Rarely are there insufficient trees, rocks or buildings to prevent that, seeing as how I don't walk much in big open playas.)

It's the crack head closing in on me from 30' that I want to deal with.

My strategy in a nutshell:
Keep your distance, go your own way.
Get too close, feel the sting.
Nematocyst is locked and loaded.

Nem

 

[Brad Johnson]

At 3 yards I can keep 90+ % of my shots on a paper plate at anything less than full-on "spray-and-pray" feed rates. If I limit shot strings to three rounds or less I can up the feed rate a bit and, given a little calm concentration, I can get some slow-fire strings into an area you could cover with the palm of your hand.

However, from 3 yards out my rapid-fire point-shooting accuracy drops off almost exponentially. At 7 yards I would be lucky to keep half my shots on a B-27 target. At 25 yards I would be lucky just to hit the ground. Only in the gravest of emergencies (and in no situation that I can actually think of) would trying to point-shoot at distances past the 12-15' limit even be a consideration.

It took a long time and a lot of money to find a gun that points naturally for me (a Springfield XD). That and a LOT of practice ammo are the only reasons for my ability to shoot reasonably well in a point-shoot scenario.

Brad