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How are Black Powder Revolvers 'Proof Tested'?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Oyeboten, Mar 9, 2010.

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  1. Oyeboten

    Oyeboten Member

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    I understand Muzzle Loading Shotguns and Rifles, and Muzzle Loading Single Shot Pistols, were/are Proofed, by shooting a test Load of double Powder, and double Ball...or, at least this is what I think I recall reading.


    But, how were/are Cap and Ball Revolvers Proof Fired/tested?
     
  2. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    I'm not sure who really knows or what documentation can be supplied about the exact proof testing method used for the Italian cap & ball revolvers.
    One of the Pedersoli pages below goes into some detail about proofing their BPCR and smokeless guns where they mention exceeding the ammo. pressure spec.'s by 30%. What isn't mentioned is whether that same 30% rule also applies to C&B revolvers.
    There's only so much room for powder in a revolver chamber.
    Maybe they use 4F powder for testing so they can develop a certain amount of excess pressure in that way? Wouldn't it be interesting to learn that sub. powders are being used for proof testing?
    BTW, the Pedersoli manual lists identical powder charges of 18 grains to 35 grains max. for both of their revolvers, the Remington Pattern and the Roger & Spencer "Pedersoli".

    Here's one generic proofing statement from Pedersoli that mentions C.I.P rules:

    An excerpt of the details about proofing their smokeless and BPCR guns.

     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
  3. mykeal

    mykeal Member

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    AFIK all the European countries require their manufacturers to conduct proof tests before selling/delivering their firearms. The methods and standards vary, however. The US has no such restrictions, and no US manufacturer will admit to conducting proof testing nor provide the details of such testing if it is indeed accomplished. This is for product liability reasons.
     
  4. unspellable

    unspellable Member

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    Proof

    A 30% over pressure is pretty standard for a smokeless proof load. This is easily achieved with smokeless powder in a cartridge. It's also easily achieved in a nitro for BP load.

    For muzzle loading firearms other than revolvers the old standards prescribed a certain overcharge of powder and shot. They may be still i nuse.

    Revolvers are a quandry, since you can't overload a revolver with a single ball. Not sure what hey do there.

    1 bar = 14.503 psi. But this is simply a unit conversion. There is ABSOLUTELY NO conversion factor between CIP, cup, piezo, or the old British method. They are four different methods, measuring four different things, and there is no good correlation between them.

    With a given load you will get four different pressures with the four different methods.
     
  5. andrewstorm

    andrewstorm member

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    proof tested

    the ruger old army b p revolver is said to have been proofed{THE PROTO TYPE}BY FILLING THE CYLINDER WITH BULLSEYE,AND SEATING A BALL ON IT,TO NO AVAIL THE RUGER WAS NOT DAMAGED!SO THE LEGEND GOES,BILL RUGER WANTED TO MAKE HIS PET REVOLVER IDIOT PROOF,BUT I WOULDNT WANT TO PULL THAT TRIGGER!:eek:
     
  6. Oyeboten

    Oyeboten Member

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    I would not either!

    S-c-a-r-e-y...


    Prior to Nitro or Smokelss Propellents, I guess there was no way to Proof Fire a BP Revolver, unless one jammed a second Ball down the Barrel, and, onto the one at Battery, and, then, let 'er rip...but, even, then, that would not be very much of an over-load 'proof', even if it would be something substantial anyway.


    A Cylinder full of 'Bullseye', in the RUGER prototype...I dunno...are sure that really happened?


    Yeowey!


    Lol...
     
  7. wittzo

    wittzo Member

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    Ruger does crazy stuff to promote hoe tought their guns are. I read one article where they grabbed random pieces off the P-85 line and assembled a few pistols to show how all the parts were completely interchangeable and within .XXX" of tolerance.

    They took one of the barrels, bored it out smooth and tapped it with threads an inch in front of the chamber and screwed a rod in place and fired it with a proof load from a rest. They said the proof load was a double load, with twice as much powder for the bullet. The only damage was a blown out extractor, so they replaced the barrel and extractor, took measurements to make sure it was within tolerances and fired that pistol for 5000 rounds, inspecting it every few hundred rounds and measuring it with calipers to make sure it was still within tolerance. They also fired one of them with a number of proof loads (1000?) instead of regular rounds, again, double loaded rounds, to show how tough the pistols were.

    On an aside, when the Army did their competition to replace the 1911 with a "wondernine", it was a four way tie between Beretta, Ruger, S&W, and SigSauer. Ruger won because it was the least expensive, but they had just started making it, they weren't able to produce them in the numbers required by the contract. S&W was in the same boat. SigSauer was too expensive, so Beretta won the contract. Years later several Beretta's suffered slide fractures and failures using carbine ammo in the Navy Seals (which are 147 grain projectiles and XX% more powder to make sure the subguns stay reliable), so they were replaced by the SigSauer, designated the M10.
     
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