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How big of Faux Pas is taping down the grip safety on a 1911?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by CmdrSlander, Feb 1, 2013.

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  1. 12gaugeTim

    12gaugeTim Member

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    Are the people in this thread who frown on disabling the grip safety also scared of handguns with just a single, manual safety? Disabling the grip safety just makes the 1911 like a host of other handguns.
     
  2. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    Pinning the grip safety-there are several ways to do it-was not uncommon over the decades of the guns life. Some fellas who carried the gun in harms way had a hard time consistently gripping the gun at speed in such a way that they reliably depressed the grip safety. So some rendered it inoperable. It's been done and is up to the shooter.

    About 15 years ago flat mainspring housings became the rage and swarms of shooters began to have problems properly depressing the grip safety. Not long after Kimber re-introduced the Schwartz safety on their 1911s, which is activated off the grip safety, and a swarm more developed troubles.

    About the same time, by happenstance, a gun writing cop began scaring folks about altering any safety devices on their guns. This because the well known overzealous cop in a suit da might say at trial..."Yes Mr. Bumpkiss your ex wife's current brother in law did shoot through your back door with a 12 gauge and try to kill you and you did defend yourself returning fire, but didn't you remove the mag safety on your Hi-Power? Your Going To Jail Now!"

    So the safety with a "memory" bump was developed by Ed Brown, I think it was. This may work for you. So might a rubber band, or a piece of leather, or a properly trimmed plastic shok buff in the right spot.

    tipoc
     
  3. wally

    wally Member

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    Its pretty important you tape it down before you remove the mainspring housing -- makes re-assembly a whole lot easier. But otherwise I think it a bad idea.

    Gripping your pistol properly should be a non-issue with any decent training and practice. If a flat mainspring housing causes problems with your grip, get an arched one! or vice-versa.
     
  4. tuj

    tuj Member

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    I think some of you over-estimate the chances of a 1911 landing exactly in such a way as to trigger the firing pin to make sufficient contact with the primer as to cause ignition. I read in a 1911 book that a guy made up a drop rig along with some loads with no powder, just a primer, and dropped the gun straight down and it took something like 22' for it to ignite the primer.
     
  5. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Member

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    Your gun your choice. Love all the huffy busy body responses.
     
  6. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    By the way JMB and Colt engineers would have put any safety on the 1911 that the military wanted. It was their contract. Remember it beat out a number of guns in the competition. It's safety and reliability was a factor in that. The military felt that the revisions they made to the gun in 1926 enhanced it's safety and reliability and shootability.

    He did put a grip safety on the M1903 in .32 acp and an external thumb safety on it as well. Colt kept it in the M1908 in .380.

    He did not have either a grip safety or thumb safety on the Military and commercial Models or the M1903 Pocket Hammer in 38 acp. That may of had something to do with their not selling so well.

    tipoc
     
  7. StrawHat

    StrawHat Member

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    Try gluing a piece of leather to the grip safety. It will cause you hand to depress the safety as you grab the pistol. This was done long before the metal bump was left on the safeties and is easier to remove.
     
  8. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    A Fox Passed???? Where I will get it!

    f4bc106c-fb3f-4fb1-9cb2-df0993d18d73_zps75ce900e.gif


    On a serious note.. There are a ton of grip safety versions out there and they are not very difficult to change.. Perhaps changing to something with a different design might help? I would also advise not disabling it with tape.
     
  9. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    Could you expand on this?

    How could there be a difference in circumference dependent on whether the grip safety is being depressed by your hand or tape?

    It isn't like a working grip safety stands prouder when it depressed than when it is taped down...it can only be depressed so far into the backstrap

    Yes, IPSC shooters used to do a lot of things they don't do anymore...like press checking their 1911s by placing their index finger on the recoil spring plug while placing their thumb inside the trigger guard and squeezing their fingers together or placing their support hand index finger on the front of the trigger guard

    I don't think anyone is saying that you are crazy, but that wasn't the question. The question was if it was a faux pas and you compared it to badly sporterized rifles.

    To that question the answer is pretty much yes, because someone seeing it isn't going to think you are replicating a retro IPSC look as much as they are going to see someone who is disabling a safety device on a pistol
     
  10. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    Can we please put this to rest?

    JMB's first submission to the Army board was only equipped with a grip safety...see post #5 about...as he did not see the need for a thumb safety. They rejected this model and had him add the thumb safety...to prevent officers from shooting their horses when re-holstering during a battle
     
  11. JERRY

    JERRY Member

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    it will then work like a browning Hi-Power.

    prosecutor: gasp "did you tape down the grip safety"!?

    defendent: "yes, yesy i did".

    defense attorney: "did you intend to shoot the gun at your attacker?"

    defendent: "yes, yes i did"?

    defense attorney: so the grip safety didnt matter did it"?

    defendent: no, no it didnt".

    defense attorney: "so you pulled the trigger and meant to shoot your attacker"?

    defendent: "yes, yes i did".
     
  12. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    The trigger on a Hi Power is hinged. The trigger bar goes forward. 1911 trigger parts all move rearward (much like all the striker-fired guns, and hence why they all have trigger safeties). Drop safety is the key difference.
    I'm not omniscient, but I'm pretty sure you're referencing a test of firing pin inertia. When the gun is dropped on the muzzle. We're talking about the grip safety preventing trigger inertia. This happens when the gun lands muzzle up, which is much, much more dangrous. There's no single safe height from which to drop a grip-safetyless 1911. It all depends on the trigger pull and mass of the trigger+associated parts. There are all kinds out there, from 1 lb pulls all the way to 8.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  13. Solo

    Solo Member

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    So take the tape off while the cops arrive :evil:
     
  14. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    A "host" of other handguns have low-mass pivoting triggers. The 1911's trigger travels in a straight line. Even if it's made of a lightweight aluminum alloy...it still travels in a straight line...and the only thing standing between the trigger and the disconnect is about a 16th inch of pretravel and a single thin leaf spring.

    A grip safety can be adjusted to release earlier if need be. I do it all the time for those few people who have problems getting them to disengage.

    And let's not fall into the trap of what JMB intended. He didn't have a free hand in it. The US Army asked for a grip safety and he gave'em one. Later on, the US Cavalry asked for a manual slide-locking safety...and he gave'em one.
     
  15. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    I am curious why someone believes it is ok for a "range gun" to have less safety features than one is used for self and home defense?

    After all n.d.'s never have occurred on the range have they?
     
  16. bigfatdave

    bigfatdave Member

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    I think this "problem" can be solved with spring adjustment at minimum, or some simple grip/GS swaps at worst.

    As someone who does remove mag disconnects and other undesired safety features from guns, I wouldn't disable a passive safety device like a GS.
     
  17. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I had a problem in that if I put the tip of my thumb on the top of the manual safety thumb piece (paddle) the grip safety wouldn't be fully depressed. Given that the later Browning P-35 lacks this feature with no serious issues, I used a small screw to block it in the full-forward position and never looked back. If I should need it I can easily return it to full function.

    On other occasions I have "adjusted" the safety so the trigger will be free to move when it is so much as slightly depressed.

    In my view the right solution is what each individual user decides too do.

    For the record, John Browning didn’t want it, but the Army insisted.
     
  18. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    The problem has been described:

    Some shooters have problems reliably depressing the grip safety on their guns. Why varies with the individual guns and the individual hands and the users techniques.

    The reason the grip safety is there has been well explained. How it works has also been well explained.

    Pinning the drip safety is old practice begun by GIs and well used by lawmen and gunnies for many years when needed. They weighed their options and they chose.

    This practice was used long before the glut of affordable aftermarket parts on the internet and through gunsmiths were available.

    It's a personal choice. If you want to over ride a useful safety device do so knowingly and know the choices.

    A faux pas, by the way, is when you slip up in your manners or style, like wearing a pirate costume to work or discussing your domestic problems with strangers or passing gas when you meet the Governor, etc.

    Deactivating the grip safety isn't a matter of style or etiquette as I see it. If it was chiefly that than I think it odd that a person would be concerned with that. "Is it in bad taste that I deactivate my grip safety?" seems off base in a way.

    It's a safety concern. Know the risks and options.

    tipoc
     
  19. OilyPablo

    OilyPablo Member

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    Maybe I'm dense but I'm not 100% sure what this does. Taping it down doesn't make the grip safety any smaller(?)
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  20. Shadowdancer

    Shadowdancer Member

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    Disabling safety features on any product looks very bad in a court of law. Considering the liability you would face, to quote Clint Eastwood: Do you feel lucky?
     
  21. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    Considering that over 90% of the folks in prison never had a court trial before a judge or jury and it's much likelier you'd be forced to take a plea, this point seems weaker than ever. On the other hand, as they love to add on charges on top of charges and sundry things to the heap, it could be one more ounce to a 50 pound pile.

    The point against pinning the safety, to repeat, is that, if the safety is pinned, and the gun is dropped muzzle up, the weight of the trigger could cause the trigger to fully depress and the gun shoot. It's a safety matter.

    tipoc
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  22. Evil One

    Evil One Member

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    I carry dual Combat Masters... they have no grip safety.
    I am fine with it.


    Jim
     
  23. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    In the OP, he is speaking of taping down the grip safety.

    The image that raises in my mind is duct tape around the back of the frame...that sounds like a style statement to me
     
  24. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    They were also designed to be carried with the hammer down and thumb cocked on the draw...that is why the rear sight was pushed forward and the top of the slide was machined away behind it :evil:
     
  25. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    deleted
     
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