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How big of Faux Pas is taping down the grip safety on a 1911?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by CmdrSlander, Feb 1, 2013.

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  1. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    I suppose he could use one of those little open end condom/inner-tube like things some fellas put on their Glock grips to make them less slippery and even thicker. That might be more discreet and less of a faux-pas.

    A strip of rawhide tie looks old school and is socially acceptable.

    tipoc

    P.S.

    As I recall the Detonics Combat Master weighs less than the GM. The light alloy trigger of the CM and lighter weight of the piece overall makes the type of ud being discussed a non issue. The Detonics were tested for such accidents a good number of times as I remember. Deeton and others over to the Detonics forum will know.
     
  2. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    This and nothing more. A matter of choice. If you can be 100% confident that you'll never drop the pistol, then disable it. I hope that you don't discover that it was the wrong choice.

    I timed one to release earlier for a fella just the other day. Took all of 5 minutes with a smooth mill file...including taking the gun apart and putting it back together.

    Finally...while it may or may not be a factor in a lawful shooting, an accidental shooting because it was dropped...after deliberately disabling the very thing that would have prevented it...may prove to be a very expensive lesson in the way a civil litigation rolls.
     
  3. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    If it keeps the gun from firing if dropped - and landing butt-down/muzzle up is a lot more likely than the reverse - that's good enough for me. :)

    I don't have large hands, but I've never failed to depress a 1911 grip safety no matter how I held the gun in any kind of normal shooting grip.
     
  4. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    I don't even notice the grip safeties on any of my 1911's. I don't understand why anyone would need to disable it. :confused:
     
  5. OilyPablo

    OilyPablo Member

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    Don't bother. Same here. I asked the question what the gain is and no one answered. :banghead:
     
  6. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I'll try:

    It depends on your hand, and how you grip the pistol.

    Some prefer resting the tip of the thumb on the paddle (thumb piece) of the manual safety so that it cannot be flipped up while shooting. This would seem like a good idea, and for many if not most it is.

    However for some with smaller hands, lifting the thumb to the higher position prevents the grip safety from being fully depressed, and in this instance the piece won't fire.

    There are a number of solutions, most of which have been discussed in this thread on previous posts. If one has a problem, how they address it it their business; but some answer is better then not having the pistol go BANG! when it's something that's absolutely necessary. :banghead:
     
  7. OilyPablo

    OilyPablo Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to explain. I can see that now. I have medium small, but beefy hands (usually wear small gloves), but can't force my hand high enough for this to occur - so those folks must have really small, slender hands.
     
  8. The Wiry Irishman

    The Wiry Irishman Member

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    My carry gun and my bedside pistol both have grip safeties pinned from the factory. I like it because with a pinned safety, you can get a much smoother fit between the safety, frame, and mainspring housing that feels much better in my hand. I've found that unpinned, this shape is a bit difficult to depress reliably relative to a traditional unpinned design, especially the ones with the hump at the bottom. The grip I can achieve with the pinned safety seems to lend itself better to the gun returning to original point of aim on its own that my grip with an unpinned safety.

    EDIT: Also, I sometimes have had trouble keeping the grip safety depressed when shooting with one hand. I have long but slender hands.

    All the grip safety does is block the trigger bar, a function more or less duplicated by having the trigger bar covered by a good holster. If the gun is in your hand, it's going to be off by default. Drop safety is the primary concern. Both these guns have massively skeletonized triggers and titanium trigger bars. When I got the first one, I played around with it for a while, dropping it on my floor (thin, hard carpet over concrete slab) from as high as I could reach. I even tried it standing on my couch. I couldn't get the hammer to drop after trying this for about a hour.

    Many people in this thread have brought up very valid safety concerns with pinning the grip safety. If you decide you prefer it pinned as I do, I would highly recommend using it for range/competition only or installing lightweight trigger components and testing it thoroughly to assure yourself of the gun's safety.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  9. The Wiry Irishman

    The Wiry Irishman Member

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  10. The Wiry Irishman

    The Wiry Irishman Member

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    Also, a few pics of the pinned safety on my carry gun:

    13.jpg

    3follow1.jpg
     
  11. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    Would the Series 80-style firing pin block render the grip safety redundant?
     
  12. The Wiry Irishman

    The Wiry Irishman Member

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    I don't think so. I believe it's deactivated via pulling of the trigger, so if the gun is dropped hard enough and at the right angle for the weight of the trigger system to trip the sear, it would trip the firing pin block as well.
     
  13. marine 97-03

    marine 97-03 Member

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    Like some on here have said tampering with a safety is not a wise thing to do......period .
     
  14. LeonCarr

    LeonCarr Member

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    If you wanna carry a 1911 style gun with no grip safety, google Ballester-Molina.

    Just my .02,
    LeonCarr
     
  15. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    One last point, from me anyway, the gun can fire if the grip safety is disabled provided that there is a round in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, the thumb safety is not on and the gun is dropped and hits at just the right angle. It is not a common occurrence.

    Weigh your options.

    tipoc
     
  16. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    Common? No. I have dropped a pistol before, unintentionally, only once. It was a Sigma, and it was unloaded.

    The scary thing about a muzzle up AD is that the gun is usually going to hit the ground near your feet. That will send the bullet in the vicinity of your head, as you turn your head to look or even reach down to try to catch it.

    I have read of 2 such ND's with a Polish P64. The first guy dropped the gun while putting it back in his safe, and he took a bullet in his arm. The other guy was luckier. He only put a bullet through his ceiling.

    To me, this might be ok for an SD gun. Heck, if an ND happens, maybe the other guy will get hit. :) I wouldn't want a range gun to have this kind of potential. Getting accidentally shot for no reason would be a really bad day. Accidentally shooting the guy in the next lane could be even worse.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  17. HKGuns

    HKGuns Member

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    I would listen to Tuner and RC were I in your shoes and that is all I have to say on that matter.
     
  18. Don357

    Don357 Member

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    I personally think that JMB purposely left the grip safety off of the original 1911 military design to reduce moving parts and therefore reducing the chance of a failure and also reducing manufacturing costs. However, the military was thinking of safety concerning the number of draftees and recruits that had never handled a rifle or handgun until their "familiarization" in basic training, which in WW1 and WW2 was shortened so as to put troops in action.

    As for taping the grip safety, as many have said, it makes the 1911 just like many of the other handguns on the market, and I would seriously think about "cocked and locked" carry with the safety taped. Also, remember that any modification to any firearm's safety system, opens a miriad of issues for the 'anti-gun' crowd to use against firearm owners.
     
  19. bigfatdave

    bigfatdave Member

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    well, that's an interesting opinion, marred by the lack of a THUMB SAFETY on the original design, and an obvious grip safety.
    But otherwise, very interesting.

    These concepts were discussed upthread already, and in endless previous threads.
    Seriously, there's a picture in post#3
     
  20. wow6599

    wow6599 Member

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    Just change the set-up.
    I have owned or shot many, many 1911's.

    My last one, a Colt Custom shop build with a S&A grip safety, Novak ambi thumb safety and VZ G10 grips doesn't work - for me - worth a darn.

    Only 1911 I can't use a high, thumbs forward grip with...... at least not reliably enough for my likes. about 15% of the time, I don't get positive engagement (dis-engagement) of the grip safety.

    Maybe I will tweak the leaf spring.....maybe I will change to a low-ride thumb safety.

    I won't use tape..........
     
  21. TheGloriousTachikoma

    TheGloriousTachikoma Member

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    @ CmdrSlander (post #5)

    Now I *really* want to finish a Rudius 80% frame, if for little other reason than to build a 1911 with no manual safety. I already have one money pit of a project (my RX-7), now I want another money pit. <_<

    Seriously though, that is all kinds of esoteric cool. B)
     
  22. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    Just be aware that the original intent was that the 1911 be carried with the hammer down on an empty chamber. The training was to chamber a round immediately before engaging in combat by racking the slide
     
  23. Don357

    Don357 Member

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    OK, I'm tired, several hundred miles away from home, and heading farther away as soon as day breaks. (I drive a truck, and am a "heavy hauler".) I'm not thinking straight. Still, I think you understood what I was getting at.EXCUUUUUSSSE ME!:banghead:
     
  24. RainDodger

    RainDodger Member

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    The grip safety is there for a reason. Get used to it!
     
  25. EBK

    EBK Member

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    Ding Ding Ding

    We have a winner!
     
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