The Lone Haranguer
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Carrying becomes easier if you think in terms of "unobtrusive to a casual glance" rather than "not even a hint." 
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How concealed is concealed?
- Thread starter nigelcorn
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There is obviously two sides to the coin - but it's not Texas Open Carry everywhere you go yet.
Casual flashing on the street is your call, what you get away with in your environment that works for you, fine. For others - it could be the WRONG decision, and it IS arrogant to assume for someone else just how careless they should be (not calling out anyone specific.) As a mindset, it makes the circumstances of how one individual deals with it the gold standard. Well, if you are an out of state, CCW licensed , and find yourself in CA, good luck with casual flashing. The first anecdotal story I heard on that was a neighboring state's LEO academy student being discovered in a traffic stop and losing their seat in the classroom as a result. Violating the law - however stupid and wrong that law may be - will not excuse anyone and a punishment will be handed down.
At the very least, ignoring the people around you and not taking into account that their views on firearms may be misinformed, malicious, and even proactively harmful means deliberately ignoring a risk - opening you to a political attack thru the administrative structure of the workplace.
If anyone is blind to that risk, well documented in the news and lawsuits, is it portraying a lack of general knowledge, or a blind spot that continues to fuel resentment in others? The "I can get away with it" mindset is risk tolerant, and it may also manifest itself in a lack of sensitivity toward others. Going thru the day with a "Screw you, I'm golden" attitude doesn't sound like a comfortable Condition Orange mood. More like a superbrite White and bulletproof denial of risk at all.
Isn't that what tactical instructors caution us to avoid?
There's also the reverse problem - coworker's who are aware you might carry, and don't mind at all. In fact, when confronted by a robber in a public place, excitedly waving their gun in the face of his targets, they confidently blurt out, "Hey YOU have a gun, why aren't YOU doing something about this guy?" A simple robbery for cash is now escalated to an armed showdown, with the BG already aware. NO method of carry can make up for THAT tactical disaster, you can't draw fast enough.
I thought the point of carry was to prevent other people making lifethreatening actions against you - but it's ok for your acquaintances to ignorantly gamble with your life? Really?
I think we should quit excusing poor carry practices and flashing a gun for what it is, a desire to be seen as powerful and impressive - at the expense of security and loss of an edge in the fight. What is getting pushed is exactly the opposite of the "grey man" philosophy, a concept where the gun carrier is actively showing off their "concealed" hardware and overtly being "the Man" to support their ego.
I see it as a flawed concept, and I hope someone doesn't find it literally indefensible. It is exactly the reason the military no longer flies in uniform.
Casual flashing on the street is your call, what you get away with in your environment that works for you, fine. For others - it could be the WRONG decision, and it IS arrogant to assume for someone else just how careless they should be (not calling out anyone specific.) As a mindset, it makes the circumstances of how one individual deals with it the gold standard. Well, if you are an out of state, CCW licensed , and find yourself in CA, good luck with casual flashing. The first anecdotal story I heard on that was a neighboring state's LEO academy student being discovered in a traffic stop and losing their seat in the classroom as a result. Violating the law - however stupid and wrong that law may be - will not excuse anyone and a punishment will be handed down.
At the very least, ignoring the people around you and not taking into account that their views on firearms may be misinformed, malicious, and even proactively harmful means deliberately ignoring a risk - opening you to a political attack thru the administrative structure of the workplace.
If anyone is blind to that risk, well documented in the news and lawsuits, is it portraying a lack of general knowledge, or a blind spot that continues to fuel resentment in others? The "I can get away with it" mindset is risk tolerant, and it may also manifest itself in a lack of sensitivity toward others. Going thru the day with a "Screw you, I'm golden" attitude doesn't sound like a comfortable Condition Orange mood. More like a superbrite White and bulletproof denial of risk at all.
Isn't that what tactical instructors caution us to avoid?
There's also the reverse problem - coworker's who are aware you might carry, and don't mind at all. In fact, when confronted by a robber in a public place, excitedly waving their gun in the face of his targets, they confidently blurt out, "Hey YOU have a gun, why aren't YOU doing something about this guy?" A simple robbery for cash is now escalated to an armed showdown, with the BG already aware. NO method of carry can make up for THAT tactical disaster, you can't draw fast enough.
I thought the point of carry was to prevent other people making lifethreatening actions against you - but it's ok for your acquaintances to ignorantly gamble with your life? Really?
I think we should quit excusing poor carry practices and flashing a gun for what it is, a desire to be seen as powerful and impressive - at the expense of security and loss of an edge in the fight. What is getting pushed is exactly the opposite of the "grey man" philosophy, a concept where the gun carrier is actively showing off their "concealed" hardware and overtly being "the Man" to support their ego.
I see it as a flawed concept, and I hope someone doesn't find it literally indefensible. It is exactly the reason the military no longer flies in uniform.
Spartan Gladiator
Member
And my opinion wasn't arrogant, it was just anti-paranoid about being "made". The OP didn't ask about work, it asked about everyday carry.
I didnt get the feeling Tirod was saying your opinion was arrogant, I understood it as the corporations and employers restrictiveness and arrogance limit your ability to carry period.
Carter I am curious since my state doesnt allow open carry(go figure that in texas) when you do wear openly do you get weird stares or do people get nervous? I like the wearing black but I would be dead of heat stroke down here before I could use my weapon.
Geckgo
Member
Noting a couple things here,
If you are doing ANYTHING that is against company policy, then you run the risk of being fired, no matter how well you try to "hide" it.
I don't think the OP was asking about the best way to blatently disregard the policymakers at his workplace, he can correct me if I'm wrong.
This is an internet forum, not a defense course. Opinions are taken with a grain of salt, and I'm sure the op is not going to be steered toward something that doesn't work for him. How many of us buy junk guns anyways after repeatedly being warned not to? People make their own decisions, but like to hear input from those who have experience and have thought about other things.
That's all I'm gonna say about that, back on topic. A little print in most situations is going to be completely unnoticed. It's easy to scan over yourself and see what you are looking for, but a passing glance from someone else leaves a little more room for error. Talk to anyone with a nice paintjob on their car about the 20/20 rule, or buy a "fake thumb" magic kit and see for yourself how little people notice when something "off" is sticking right in their face and they still can't see it.
Tirod pointed out some good situations where deep concealment might be more important, if you are in one of those situations, then guess what? Draw time is going to suffer. I always liked ankle rigs and pocket guns for them types of situations. With Deep concealment, you give up a lot more to hide something and you will be limited on gun, clothing, calibre, and holster rig. Just how it goes.
If you are doing ANYTHING that is against company policy, then you run the risk of being fired, no matter how well you try to "hide" it.
I don't think the OP was asking about the best way to blatently disregard the policymakers at his workplace, he can correct me if I'm wrong.
This is an internet forum, not a defense course. Opinions are taken with a grain of salt, and I'm sure the op is not going to be steered toward something that doesn't work for him. How many of us buy junk guns anyways after repeatedly being warned not to? People make their own decisions, but like to hear input from those who have experience and have thought about other things.
That's all I'm gonna say about that, back on topic. A little print in most situations is going to be completely unnoticed. It's easy to scan over yourself and see what you are looking for, but a passing glance from someone else leaves a little more room for error. Talk to anyone with a nice paintjob on their car about the 20/20 rule, or buy a "fake thumb" magic kit and see for yourself how little people notice when something "off" is sticking right in their face and they still can't see it.
Tirod pointed out some good situations where deep concealment might be more important, if you are in one of those situations, then guess what? Draw time is going to suffer. I always liked ankle rigs and pocket guns for them types of situations. With Deep concealment, you give up a lot more to hide something and you will be limited on gun, clothing, calibre, and holster rig. Just how it goes.
Carter
Member
Okay let me clarify my original statement cause either I badly worded it for its being misinterpreted. I said I wasn't bothered by my gun flashing from some extreme movement, not that I'm okay with random flashing. Your gun is going to show at some point in time, its unavoidable. I'm not going to worry about it and check my shirt every 5 seconds. I do, however, try to keep it from showing by choosing an appropriate outfit.
I have never, and will never support random/intentional flashing in public. Lets use some common sense. An unintentional "flash" has happened to anyone if you have kids, don't walk like a zombie, and getting in or out of a car. Depending on where you're at though, a flash is just inexcusable. Like work, fancy occasions, etc. Never carried at work, don't really plan to.
Deep concealment, as in hard to get too, is fine if you choose, but its not for me.
When I open carry its not with my gun just hanging out blatantly visible. I generally wear a baggy shirt so I can make my gun disappear if need be, and I only open carry when I know I'm not going to be going to certain places (such as a town center, malls, etc). I've never gotten stares or been asked to leave. Like others have said earlier in the thread, no one really seems to notice. People are oblivious. I still try to make it less eye catching. My holster is black, my gun is black, my shirt is usually black. It kind of disappears to most people. I used to be very paranoid about carrying. I'd check all the time to make sure my gun wasn't showing and wouldn't dare open carry. But after a few months you start to realize no one is going to look away from their cell phone or some hotty walking by to look at you.
As far as not wearing black cause of the heat, there are other options. Any color helps more than a plain white shirt. White shirts, especially t-shirts, tend to have some type of see through effect. My tattoos on my upper arm show through t-shirts and they're relatively small. A gun will definitely show through.
If your state doesn't allow concealed carry I could understand choosing a more deep concealment. My state allows open carry so its not something I'm overly concerned about (from a legal stand point), but still prefer and attempt to keep my gun concealed. When I go to South Carolina (doesn't allow open carry) it stays hidden and will not be seen. Beach winds don't help though!
As far as a at work, if your business doesn't allow it I wouldn't suggest it. Like Tirod has said, business are usually unforgiving.
I have never, and will never support random/intentional flashing in public. Lets use some common sense. An unintentional "flash" has happened to anyone if you have kids, don't walk like a zombie, and getting in or out of a car. Depending on where you're at though, a flash is just inexcusable. Like work, fancy occasions, etc. Never carried at work, don't really plan to.
Deep concealment, as in hard to get too, is fine if you choose, but its not for me.
Carter I am curious since my state doesnt allow open carry(go figure that in texas) when you do wear openly do you get weird stares or do people get nervous? I like the wearing black but I would be dead of heat stroke down here before I could use my weapon.
When I open carry its not with my gun just hanging out blatantly visible. I generally wear a baggy shirt so I can make my gun disappear if need be, and I only open carry when I know I'm not going to be going to certain places (such as a town center, malls, etc). I've never gotten stares or been asked to leave. Like others have said earlier in the thread, no one really seems to notice. People are oblivious. I still try to make it less eye catching. My holster is black, my gun is black, my shirt is usually black. It kind of disappears to most people. I used to be very paranoid about carrying. I'd check all the time to make sure my gun wasn't showing and wouldn't dare open carry. But after a few months you start to realize no one is going to look away from their cell phone or some hotty walking by to look at you.
As far as not wearing black cause of the heat, there are other options. Any color helps more than a plain white shirt. White shirts, especially t-shirts, tend to have some type of see through effect. My tattoos on my upper arm show through t-shirts and they're relatively small. A gun will definitely show through.
If your state doesn't allow concealed carry I could understand choosing a more deep concealment. My state allows open carry so its not something I'm overly concerned about (from a legal stand point), but still prefer and attempt to keep my gun concealed. When I go to South Carolina (doesn't allow open carry) it stays hidden and will not be seen. Beach winds don't help though!
As far as a at work, if your business doesn't allow it I wouldn't suggest it. Like Tirod has said, business are usually unforgiving.
Spartan Gladiator
Member
I liked that response it took me a few minutes to stop laughing; I think you’re on to something. I will just walk next to a Hottie and can probably carry an RPG without getting noticed. Gotta love human nature and our attention span, must be why pick pockets make a living.But after a few months you start to realize no one is going to look away from their cell phone or some hotty walking by to look at you.
"Not even a hint" spares the company any issues - with no knowledge beforehand, they aren't liable, which is their primary concern, avoiding a lawsuit.
"Not even a hint" spares the concealed carrier any tactical loss of surprise when none of your coworkers can possibly "out" you in a bad situation.
'Not even a hint" means no one who works with you can use it in office politics.
"Not even a hint" means others less discreet are cover for you when things do go bad - their reaction attracts attention, diverting it from you. Don't misconstrue that - it was their choice, and they made it. No sense not using it if it happens, and you could resolve the situation to a more positive conclusion.
"Not even a hint" means just that, and it has specific advantages that more casual carry can't take advantage of.
If some want to be the known CCW guy with a gun, that's not to say it doesn't have some benefit. With the right perceptions about who that person is, it works. "This guy might have a gun" does act as a deterrent, and a bad guy assessing his risk may decide to avoid the situation for easier pickings. On the other hand, "This smaller person I don't respect anyway might have a gun" may just incite a confrontation because the reward is greater for the same risk.
If you can't pull off the first, you better avoid the second. "Not even a hint" actually lowers your risk, because there is less to gain. If you aren't worth it, then a predator more likely moves on.
Each individual has to assess their risks, and blanket, one size fits all answers are no better than insisting a size 6 maturing daughter could carry a Blackhawk .44 just like you do. Few would honestly make that mistake. And it should be the same about carry methods, don't insist one way should fit all situations.
"Not even a hint" spares the concealed carrier any tactical loss of surprise when none of your coworkers can possibly "out" you in a bad situation.
'Not even a hint" means no one who works with you can use it in office politics.
"Not even a hint" means others less discreet are cover for you when things do go bad - their reaction attracts attention, diverting it from you. Don't misconstrue that - it was their choice, and they made it. No sense not using it if it happens, and you could resolve the situation to a more positive conclusion.
"Not even a hint" means just that, and it has specific advantages that more casual carry can't take advantage of.
If some want to be the known CCW guy with a gun, that's not to say it doesn't have some benefit. With the right perceptions about who that person is, it works. "This guy might have a gun" does act as a deterrent, and a bad guy assessing his risk may decide to avoid the situation for easier pickings. On the other hand, "This smaller person I don't respect anyway might have a gun" may just incite a confrontation because the reward is greater for the same risk.
If you can't pull off the first, you better avoid the second. "Not even a hint" actually lowers your risk, because there is less to gain. If you aren't worth it, then a predator more likely moves on.
Each individual has to assess their risks, and blanket, one size fits all answers are no better than insisting a size 6 maturing daughter could carry a Blackhawk .44 just like you do. Few would honestly make that mistake. And it should be the same about carry methods, don't insist one way should fit all situations.
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