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How do handgun Modifications affect Division/Class for competition? Specifics below

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by z7, Feb 12, 2018 at 7:50 PM.

  1. z7

    z7 Member

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    Baseline: glock 35 gen 4 that I currently shoot in local 3 gun matches. Tactical division currently and I have no desire to go into the open division just for a simple handgun mod like the ones I am considering below. I want to remain in the least customized division.

    9mm Conversion barrel: Any impact for 3gun/uspsa/idpa? the added capacity would be nice for sure.

    9mm conversion barrel threaded: any impact?

    Flared magwell: 3Gun (no impact) what about IDPA/USPSA

    I have found a few ranges within a reasonable drive where I might be able to do some sort of action shooting nearly every weekend, but it would mean trying a few new things and trying to streamline/maximize my gear. 9mm is the go-to choice in everything I have seen and last week I had to reload the handgun on two stages because I am shooting a 40cal with 16rds vs a 9mm with 21 rds. reloads cost point!

    Thanks, as I go through this I will ask more questions for sure.
     
  2. Hoser

    Hoser Moderator

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  3. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    A Glock 35 is a .40S&W, right? USPSA Limited division is the division for you. It also happens to be the division I shoot 98% of the time, and is the funnest and coolest division of all time!!!! :p

    In that division, you could downgrade to 9mm with an aftermarket barrel (you can freely change out parts in LTD, just no glass or comps and magazines limited to 141.25mm, so no 33 rounders), but you would knock yourself down to minor PF scoring. Major scoring is very helpful in USPSA LTD! Very, very, very few serious competitors opt for minor in LTD, and it's nearly always because of some reason other than trying to win. Short version: Keep the 40 barrel and shoot 40 in USPSA.*

    Magwells are fine in USPSA Limited. Get a big ol' funnel!

    If you get reasonably proficient at reloading, 16 rounds should hardly ever "cost you points" in USPSA. That said, almost everyone shooting limited gets some kind of extended baseplate and followers to run the capacity up to ~20.

    I know nothing about IDPA and have no information for you about it.

    *9mm is the go-to USPSA caliber for Production division, because, by rule, minor scoring is the only kind of scoring you can get. So the extra recoil of major PF ammo is pointless. Capacity is also a non-issue in production, since you're limited by rule to 10 rounds per mag. If you hated the amount of reloading that 16 rounds forced.... in production, you pretty much have to reload every time you move your feet!
     
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  4. z7

    z7 Member

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    thanks for the replies. I don't mind reloading on the move, my recent 3 gun match twice I was stationary with a spread of steel plates and a few clamshells in front of me and had to stop and reload just to fire 3 or 4 more shots.
     
  5. thomas15

    thomas15 Member

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    This is a complicated question. May I suggest you try to simplify the question. Decide/define for us what "Action Pistol" competition you are contemplating and what gear you want to use. It prolly would be easier for you to say I have this gear, what division can I shoot with it? If budget is of primary concern, I would advise not spend any money until you figure this out. Simple is better. Competition gun gear is a money pit, mistakes are easy to make and minds have a habit of changing.

    If everyone is reloading on the move with a 10 round capacity or shooting minor powerfactor as in production then no one has an advantage.
    I think though that Dave has the right idea, USPSA Limited but there are other hardware things besides the gun to consider.
     
  6. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    USPSA has more rules than most 3gun competitions about how targets can be presented. Essentially, outside of short courses with mandatory reloads, stage designers cannot force more than 8 shots from one location.
     
  7. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I shoot mostly IDPA.
    An externally stock G35 will compete in SSP.
    A caliber conversion barrel will put it in ESP.
    A threaded barrel is not of "factory configuration" and is not allowed.
     
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  8. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    One other thought re: high-capacity non-optics 9mm in USPSA. One of the few categories of "real" shooters who do run 9mm in LTD in USPSA are the people for whom 3gun is their primary sport. The rules of most 3gun matches score 9mm the same as .40, so 9mm is the overwhelming choice of many 3gunners. For those 3gun players who want to shoot USPSA simply as a way to get some extra trigger time and competition experience with their pistol, running their 9mm 3gun pistol is perfectly sensible. They'll be at somewhat* of a competitive disadvantage against the other LTD shooters scoring major with .40, but winning USPSA is not their primary goal - winning 3gun is.

    * How much of a disadvantage sort of depends on the shooter. If you're a 95%-A's turtle, minor isn't actually much of a penalty. If you're the kind of person who just gets 2 on brown and calls it good, major helps a lot.
     
  9. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    IDPA is kinda its own special animal. Remember that max capacity is 10 rounds in the mag for IDPA. No externally visible modifications to the trigger or frame are permitted in IDPA Stock Service Pistol. You can swap out factory parts with another Glock model that offers those parts stock (i.e., magazine release, slide stop lever) and you can add grip tape or talon-type grips but if you make any permanent mods to the trigger guard or stippling, or to the trigger itself, that puts you into Enhanced Service Pistol. A magwell is permitted in ESP but the pistol must still fit in the IDPA box. Also you can only add magazine extensions/baseplates that add no more than one ounce to the mag. (I think... read up on that.)
     
  10. thomas15

    thomas15 Member

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    Correct. But the bigger question is what advantage is gained by a threaded barrel on a 9mm handgun?
     
  11. Hoser

    Hoser Moderator

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    Chicks dig it.
     
  12. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    If twisty grooves inside the barrel help accuracy, think how good a gun with them on the outside too will shoot!! Rifle everything!!!!
     
  13. z7

    z7 Member

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    I might want to suppress a handgun one day or maybe jump into the open class for 3gun so a compensator on the handgun might be nice,
    Basically for the same price is a threaded muzzle a problem and it sounds like it is. I assumed so, I know muzzle breaks are not allowed in many classes

    Regarding what I want to shoot, a little dabble in all

    I plan to kept shooting 3 gun regularly.

    IDPA is a local match on odd weekends, without a 3 gun match, so potential good practice

    A few folks at work are shooting uspsa and I might join them occasionally

    I have a blade Tec double mag holder and 3 glock oem mag holders, 4 glock 40 cal mags for the g35

    Thanks for the comments, I have read the rules but there are several organizations making rules and it is tough for me, who isn’t super familiar with all the rules to understand all of the definitions,
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 6:58 PM
  14. waktasz

    waktasz Member

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    You're gonna have a bad time if you think IDPA will be good practice for 3 gun
     
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  15. thomas15

    thomas15 Member

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    It could be said to summarize things, that It is very difficult to have 1 gun/gear that will be awesome in more than 1 discipline and almost impossible for the gun to do triple duty. Sure there is someone out there that forces it though

    The sad truth is that in spite of a market flooded with entry level equipment, firearms competitions are expensive and time consuming. But then again this is not a source of revenue for most of us, just a time of recreation.
     
  16. waktasz

    waktasz Member

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    I shot a G35 for a long time in IDPA and USPSA. It got me to Master in both before I switched to my current platform.

    A Glock 35 is actually one of the most versatile guns though. With a magwell it makes a good limited gun. Without the magwell and with some downloaded ammo it does just fine in Productions and it's fine for 3 gun also. I wouldn't even bother with the 9mm barrel because you should be able to get 20 rounds of 40 with the right basepads.
     
  17. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Reasonable, provided the user loads their own ammo. Which is where almost everyone who is serious about competition ends up, but a lot of folks just starting out are buying ammo and don't have a good way to download 40 to minor/3gun levels.
     
  18. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    We aren't looking for awesome, we are getting the OP to try out different matches with a minimum of fuss and no uberkewl modifications that will keep him out.
     
  19. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    It's pretty easy to get "kept out" of IDPA. Being "kept out" isn't really a concern in USPSA or most 3gun rulesets - it's just having to compete against guns with more advantages. NBD if you're pretty new to the sports.

    Very few of the guns I enjoy shooting in USPSA are allowed in IDPA in any division (too long or too big for the box or have prohibited feature). I solve this problem by not ever shooting IDPA. Someone bound and determined to make one gun work for IDPA and other sports may have to start with IDPA-compatibility as a baseline requirement, and then just take the disadvantage in the other game.
     
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  20. z7

    z7 Member

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    Thanks for all the comments, I do reload and have some awesome low recoil 40cal loads (small charge of Bulleseye and a 180g rmr plated bullet) and my "standard" load is a 180g plated and about 5.7g of BE86. I count tell an accuracy difference with more powder and I like shoot lower recoil loads. I guess if I go to a match with a chrono I'd need to up the powder to get Major PF. . . .or just go light and shoot minor. . . .

    I am not overly concerned with doing IDPA the "best" way. I can shoot a Glock 23 or drop in my 9mm barrel in that and shoot IDPA with my EDC gun. I am mainly wanting to make sure I understand the impact of the various modifications.

    the only modification I am currently considering is drop in barrel for greater capacity and a slight bump in speed due to lower recoil. from what I have gathered this would make it ESP in IDPA and would not help is USPSA because I have an advantage in shooting Major PF.

    it does help 3 Gun because I can use 21rd magazine for $15 each vs a $40 baseplate for my glock mags.

    you all have been very helpful and I do appreciate it. I am not expecting to be a professional shooter, it looks like I have a few months were I can shoot a lot and putting rounds downrange is always a good way to train. the best practices in IDPA/USPSA/3 Gun are all a little different, but if I get to shoot 400 rounds a month in handgun in a dynamic "action" competition manner, I will become a better shooter. the good thing is a 9mm barrel doesn't make a permanent change. based on this discussion I will NOT get a threaded barrel though.

    I have not picked a sport yet, and I doubt I will pick one sport. I don't have the time to dedicate to being REALLY good at one, and I move frequently so my ranges change as do the local matches offered.
     
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  21. thomas15

    thomas15 Member

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    All good stuff z7. Sounds like your headed in the right direction.

    In my limited experience and having dabbled in handgun competitions for 4 years or so it really wasn't until last year that I started to narrow my focus. But then I also found quite a few shooting opportunities that were hiding literally right under my nose. I have put together a list of matches that I know are on the docket for 2018 and I know there are some that will be there if I want (mostly local IDPA and USPSA) and even without those included I have 40 matches on the hit list. So now I have to go back and make a few cuts to the roster because as expensive as the shooting sports are, it's a bargain compared to divorce!

    But not to bash anyone or anything, IDPA is my least favorite, too many silly rules and a low shot count. But I do it a little just because the opportunity presents itself from time to time.
     
  22. waktasz

    waktasz Member

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    Saving money on the $40 mag baseplate doesn't really work out, because you're going to need 9mm dies for your press and have to buy that conversion barrel. If you already have the 9mm setup it's not as bad, but I hated switching out my press all the time so I just shoot 40 in everything now
     
  23. z7

    z7 Member

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    I already shoot 9mm, I have conversions for my Glock 23 and 27 that we’re a gift.

    Reloading for 9mm is no issue, I have the lnl ap so converting the press is about a 2 min job and my 124g 9mm load and my 180g 40sw load uses the same charge of be86 :)

    But the barrel is gonna cost $120, so that is about 5,000 of 9mm I’ll have to shoot to save $ by reloading 9mm over 40sw from a price point
     

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