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How do I know I'm not selling a gun to a felon?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Joe Link, Oct 13, 2006.

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  1. Joe Link

    Joe Link Member

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    This is something that really bothers me and I'm not sure what a good solution would be, or if there is one. If I'm selling one of my firearms and a private party comes to purchase it, there's nothing to stop them from lying when I ask if they have any felonies. Some say 'well you asked, that's all you can do', but if that gun was then used in a crime I'd feel horrible. I guess this is a good reason to never sell any of my collection :neener:
     
  2. Ditchtiger

    Ditchtiger Member

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    You can have a background check done, $10
     
  3. FeebMaster

    FeebMaster Member

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    Don't ask. Don't tell.
     
  4. plexreticle

    plexreticle Member

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    Cause he paid for it.
     
  5. Euclidean

    Euclidean Member

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    What if, what if, what if... You'll never get anywhere doing nothing but what iffing. What if I wake up tomorrow and the whole world's turned into lime gelatin?

    I can see your concern, but let's say you're selling a tire iron at a garage sale instead. It could be used easily to kill somebody, are you worried about that?

    What if you sold knives? Or power equipment? Or chemicals?

    It's your property, and the cornerstone of our rights rests on your ability to do whatever the hell you want with it.
     
  6. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

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    Asking to see a CHL isn't a bad way to verify that they're likely OK, if you feel anything might be squirrelly. Other than that, I just ask and take them at their word.
     
  7. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    I am conflicted concerning the background of a private buyer just as you are hence I've never sold a gun to a private party.

    My suggestion would be to just take a trip to your local FFL and pay for a NICS check/Transfer of the weapon. If the buyer isn't willing don't make the sale. That doesn't mean the buyer is a criminal or can't pass the check - more than likely he or she is as law abiding as any one of us. It probably just means they want an off the paper weapon - in other words when the day comes that the FEDS decide us sheep no longer should be permitted to own firearms those who bought from FFL's and never sold or traded their purchased weapons will be getting visits from the local government enforcers while those who bought in a face to face transaction will only have to turn in their form 4473 purchased weapons (that's assuming the enforcers don't just show up and tear the place apart knowing full well that one could have purchased out side of the system in the past).
     
  8. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    You can go through a FFL and have them do the paperwork/check if you don't mind the gov't being involved and the $20 or so they'd charge.
    Do you think YOU not selling them a firearm would have prevented the crime? A gun is a tool. If you need to pound in a nail, you'll find a hammer or suitable replacement one way or another. I see where you are coming from though, and if it was used in a crime that would be a bad deal.
     
  9. deadin

    deadin Member

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    So you are intimating that when I buy a gun on a 4473, I will never get rid of it? :uhoh:

    Dean
     
  10. progunner1957

    progunner1957 member

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    Either that or ask to see a valid CCW license and a gov't. issued ID of some type.

    The list of people I would sell any gun to without a FFL transfer is damn short and it is only people I have personally known for 10+ years.

    I understand the desire to have a gun with no "papers" on it - not a bad idea, really. Keep in mind though that if you sell a gun this way as far as The Government is concerned, it is still "on you".
     
  11. oldfart

    oldfart Member

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    I was just being born back in '34 when the NFA was signed into law but I'm sure there were a lot of gun owners who thought the government was getting too intrusive then.
    In '68 things got worse and started a slide into a morrass of forms and laws and the fear of violating some obscure rule or regulation.
    This thread is strong evidence that all those laws seem to have had the desired effect.
    I don't sell guns anymore. I like the ones I have and my wife and daughter like them well enough that they wouldn't let me sell them either. But if I were to sell one, I sure wouldn't worry about whether or not the buyer was a 'disenfranchised person' according to a law or regulation I don't believe should even be on the books. In my book, a "felon" lives in a prison and has armed guards to protect him from harm and us from him. Real 'felons' don't exist except in a prison or a brainwashed mind.
    That said, I'd still try to make sure the buyer wasn't a psycho looking for a school. Though if he were to ask directions to one I'd probably send him to the Police Academy.
     
  12. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    In NV

    you can do a background check if you so desire.
    It's not required though.
    I've only sold to friends or friends of friends myself.
    It's legal here, I'm not sure whatstate your in but ,for instance, CA requires you go thru a FFL.
     
  13. Molon Labe

    Molon Labe Member

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    When I sell a gun, I couldn't care less if the person is a felon.
     
  14. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    You better care. You are why states like PA have legislated that NO handgun sales may be made be individuals unless the firearm sale is handled (ie. booked) by a FFL dealer and the NICs check performed (except to limited family members). If you knowingly sell a firearm to a felon, you have committed a crime.
     
  15. Euclidean

    Euclidean Member

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    The gun is his property. He can sell it to whoever he wants. End of story.

    Granted I would encourage anyone to not do anything illegal. But when I'm king, that's how it will be.

    Either that or we just might as well assume the state owns all of his property in reality and can tell him what to do with it.
     
  16. orionengnr

    orionengnr Member

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    Lots of good advice.

    If the buyer has a CHL, that is evidence of law abiding citizenship status.

    Conducting the transaction at an FFL (complete with 4473) is an option if the buyer is not a CHL holder.

    If you are selling on the net, inter-state, that requires shipping to an FFL (talking handguns here).

    I like the "don't sell, period" advice too. Wish I could afford to follow it. :rolleyes:
     
  17. hammer4nc

    hammer4nc Member

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    NC requires a handgun purchase permit ($5 donation to the sherriff's Jim Crow memorial fund;) ) to be presented by the buyer, and retained by the seller in a private sale. Failure to do so is a class 1 misd. on both parties. CHP can substitute for the handgun purchase permit. Don't like it, not aware of prosecutions on it, but there ya go.
     
  18. usaimages

    usaimages Member

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    Would you worry so much about selling your used car? What if the buyer was a convicted drunk who then got loaded and ran into a station wagon with a woman and her children and killed them all. Is that your fault also? As far as I'm concerned, a person can become a felon for just about anything anymore. You are a convicted felon only when you get caught, but when you are released from prison you become an "ex-felon". My point is, if you are now released back into society then the govt. has decided that you have "paid your debt to society" and are now perfectly safe to walk free among your fellow members of society. If you are still considered to be a "danger", they never should have let you free. I, for one, will not become a personal watchdog for the federal or state govt. If you want to be, that's just fine. By the way, I am not some guy with a record who is spouting off because I cannot legally own a gun. I'm a correctional officer who works an armed post in a prison, an ex-cop and a concealed handgun permit holder. Let the backlash begin.
     
  19. STAGE 2

    STAGE 2 Member

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    Draw up a simple contract stating that "I'm selling the following firearm to so and so for X dollars. By signing this document so and so agrees to this transaction and is representing that there are no local, state or federal law prohibiting so and so from owning a firearm."

    Do that and felon or otherwise you're in the clear.
     
  20. vynx

    vynx Member

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    Does it worry you enough to take less money?

    If so then sell it consignment through a gunshop - it may be different in some states but in California the shop will do all the paperwork but they usually take 20% of the selling price.

    I wouldn't worry it is NOT the gun committing the crime its the person.
     
  21. Zen21Tao

    Zen21Tao Member

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    When the day comes that guns are illegal I will have bills of sale written up for every gun I bought on a form 4473. ;) ;) :D
     
  22. fjolnirsson

    fjolnirsson Member

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    OldFart,

    You said it better than I could have. Felons are in prison. An ex-convict who has served his time is a free man, same as I am. He deserves the same rights and priveleges I have. If he is too dangerous to trust with a gun, the Gorram government shouldn't have let him out. I will never stand in the way of someone trying to defend themselves or their family. Think about it. As much as folks here gripe and grumble about the "right" to self defense, and how states that disallow carry are creating a society of victims, doesn't the law regarding felons and firearms do the same thing?
    Or is it a "guns for me, but not for thee" thing, like the anti-gun politicians espouse?
     
  23. plexreticle

    plexreticle Member

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    The only paperwork I'm concerned about when I sell a gun is green.
     
  24. River Wraith

    River Wraith Member

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    Easy, just don't sell your guns.:neener:
     
  25. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Pretty much, but the law read that if you knowingly sell to someone who is prohibited by law, you are committing a felony.

    When I do private transfers, I generally use personal judement. If I don't know the person from Adam, I have form that I use. Basically just a bill of sale with make, model, caliber and S/N. But I get full name, address, DL # and phone #. It also has a two paragraph section at the end of which the buyer must sign. That section basically covers all the stuff you must answer no to on the 4473. If they refuse to do this, I don't sell b?c it is my arse if they go shoot a convenience store clerk with it the next day. Thus far I have never had anyone do this.

    If I do know the buyer personally or on the reference of a friend I trust, I use a much simpler bill of sale with make, model and S/N plus their full name and phone #.

    On the same note, I use the more formal version when I buy privately from someone I don't know. Since it contains both buyer and seller info and signatures, it clears me (the buyer) if the weapon was reported stolen.
     
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