How do they get caught?

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As JustinJ wrote, having to use an illegally modified weapon in a SD scenario is just about the worst possible situation. Not to criticise but, frankly, I don't fully understand the point of this thread. We all know no one here is going to illegally modify any fireams, right?
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As stated in the OP this thread is in no way meant to encourage anything criminal. The title is how do they get caught, not how to get away with it.
My point was simply: An SBR, SBS is almost impossible to miss if you're paying attention, where as most converted autos aren't going to be noticed unless they are fired, or a serious internal inspection is done. For every one case I've heard of with an unregistered MG I've heard of 10 with an unregistered SBS. My question was is this the case because it is much easier to take a saw to a shotgun barrel than to convert a semi auto, or is it because modified autos are frequently overlooked as just another semi. And of course I wanted to hear about cases like the geniuses firing FA into the air on new years, because I imagined thats how one is getting the charge.
 
Every single time I ever read of someone charged with NFA violations, it is a pile-on charge in addition to other crimes that originally got the attention of the authorities, such as gang-related violence, drug trafficing, etc.
 
Really? Ruby ridge and Waco are two of the larger cases.

He said convictions. There were never any convictions connected to NFA weapons in the Waco incident. In fact, there was never proof that any NFA weapons were involved. The entire saga was triggered by allegations of child abuse and the delivery of inert grenade hulls to the compound.
 
Some of the things I hear just amaze me. I have one co-worker in particular who has bragged about continuing to CCW when he drove down to Mexico, he said he just kept his P11 in his pocket and didn't say anything to the Border Patrol.

He also recently talked about going to a knob creek style machine gun shoot so he could learn how to modify his WASR to fire in full auto. I told him that I really doubted anyone there would be willing to help as it would mean a nice long stay in a federal penitentiary and he just scoffed at me.

Now this guy isn't dumb, maybe ignorant of the laws or just naive. I'm waiting for the day that he doesn't show up for work because he is in jail awaiting trial.
So he's a U.S. citizen and he crosses out of and into the U.S. illegally? That's weird. You know, if he's a U.S. citizen he can legally re-enter through any of the ports of entry along the border.

Strange indeed.
 
So a corollary question would be to those of you with properly registered NFA goodies.

Have you ever had anyone in Law Enforcement ask to see your tax stamp?

If so; What were the circumstances?
I have.. We were at my place in the country,set up about 1/2 mile off the county road, and, 3/4 mile of a US hwy... Had an MG-42, M-16, MP-40, and an AR-180.. having a grand old time.. tearing up a creek bed.

After a bit, we heard a horn honking.. looked around and about 200 yards off there was a Blazer with a Game Warden emblem on the door. One lone warden standing on the opposite side of the truck waving his hat... (he was being a bit cautious, and I don;t fault im one little bit there) we stood up, (prone on the MG42) and waved him over... All of us being LEO our selves, stepped well away from the guns, that were laid out on several mats on the ground.. From there is got comical.

He asked us. " Ah, you boys ain't huntin nuthin with them are you? " No-Sir, just killin some cans." there were cans and plastic bottles shredded all over the creek bank. "Do you boys have permission to be on this property?" .."Yes Sir, I'm the owner." "I thought this place belonged to a widder (that's E-Texan for widow) woman in town." Ah Yes sir, that would have been my Grandmother, she passed in April. It was passed down to me."
"Are those real machine guns?" "Yes Sir, as real as it gets." "Are they Legal?" "They certainly are, the Tax Stamps are in our wallets, I will gladly show them to you."

At this time we all pulled out our wallets (three of us) and produced our Police ID's as well as laminated miniature copies of the the Tax Stamps, as well as a Copy of my class 3 FFL.. "Oh Hell, why didn't yall say you were cops?" "You didn't ask, besides were not gonna arrest anybody." He chuckled, stated that he had never seen that kind of paperwork before... Then he asked if he could shoot one.. We let him shoot them all... He had a blast.... I thought that it was funny, the first two questions he asked were not related to anything but his area of LE,, Game laws... We, the Game Warden and I, remained friends for about 6 or 7 years until he retired... He would drop by if the gate was open.

In regard to loose lips... I had been a cop for 30 years, two different agencies in a large metro area.. I have closed the cell door on literally 1000's of people, some bad, same real bad, many just good people with a moment (or two) of bad judgment.. I would venture to say, that about 98.5% of them arrested themselves. They just didn't have ANY idea when to shut up... Ron White said it best... You Just can't fix Stupid.

As far as Illegal NFA weapon that I have come across in 30 years, only one FA, more than a few short barrel shotguns or what I think was even more common, is sawed off rifles, mostly 22's.. in rough minority neighborhoods.. many of them came back as stolen in residential burglaries... one I particularly remember was a beautiful Browning Citori shotgun, looked like a presentation grade, over and under, that some Dumb thief took a hack saw too... I almost cried.... When I was at the range, many years ago, all the weapons that went through the property room, the range personnel would cull through them and strip parts that could be used to repair officers guns. This was done just before a burn, we got to see everything. back then even what today would be termed an assault rifle was rare.. Today Black guns, AK's and SKS's are a bit more prevalent, but not near what the media would have you believe.. I have never seen data on this published by ATF.. probably because the stats won't support their position..
 
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So a corollary question would be to those of you with properly registered NFA goodies.

Have you ever had anyone in Law Enforcement ask to see your tax stamp?


If so; What were the circumstances?

I have twice. Both were LEO and the Chief wouldn't sign for them. They wanted to know how I made it happen. Fixed one of them up with a trust.

Have had a few MG shoots that I figured someone would want to know what is going on (5+ hours of FA and tannerite), nothing.
 
Thank you Kingpin for making that clarification for me.

What I've seen is that, when Cleetus and his buddies Spud an' Tater are discovered in a motel room stepping on product, and there's also an NFA violation, the local prosecutor is going to push ahead on the possession with intent/trafficking charge he can make, rather than wait however long it takes for an AUSA to decide to docket one case.

By the time a raid occurs, there are other, "more serious" charges to arraign for. Which rather moots the point of NFA (or the Vile Amendment in FOPA).
 
Letting other people shoot it.
Brag about it.
Try and sell it.
Talking about how to make one.

I have been trying to get my wife to let me buy land and move out to the country. Any advice?
 
I have been trying to get my wife to let me buy land and move out to the country. Any advice?

Wife and I moved "out" +/- 5yrs ago...
Was a bit traumatic for her at first, missed being able to walk ten steps to visit friendly neighbors...

She has since informed me that she's keeping the house if she has to "fire" me.

There's something about being able to shoot in the "yard", suit-optional swimming and sun bathing; deer, 'dillos, 'coons, and the occasional bobcat or bald eagle hanging around that she finds attractive...:D

The migratory songbird population is also pretty amazing here, less than a mile from Brazos Bend State Park.

And, no, I've never had local LE stop by to ask what we're shooting.
SPIDERCREEK1.jpg

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I have been trying to get my wife to let me buy land and move out to the country. Any advice?

A little drift but I did it the easy way. She was the one that wanted to move, I simply put in a few specs and let her find the ones we would look at. Anyway to make it "her" idea makes is super easy.
 
There was an agreement made many years ago between ALL the chiefs, Constables, and the Sheriff in our area that they would sign NO NFA papers for anyone, even their own officers... When we got turned down by our Chief, we went to a Federal Judge.. he was glad to sign... Then we later circumvented the whole deal by obtaining a Class 3 FFL.

These days, it is customary that the Chiefs and some of the Sheriffs in outlying counties initially reject the letter.. In keeping with their agreement... You return later with a demand letter on a law firms letterhead, ( supplied by the dealer handling the transfer from what I am told) stating that the purchaser was being denied a Constitutionally legal right. They then sign the letter.. According to a couple of buds who have bought lately. One stated his Sheriff asked him why it took a month to get back with the letter, and smiled when he signed... All a game...
 
What do we do, whom do we tell, or just delete this post???

I've actually read the manual for that conversion. Interesting.

Anyway, your friend has a few options -

Option 1: Turn it in. He probably wouldn't have any problems surrendering the gun, but you never know if some ATF agent trying to justify the existence of his job might pounce on him and try to send him to jail. He might not want to take that risk.

Option 2: Destroy it. Strip any useful parts from the receiver. Take the receiver, the stripped trigger group, and any parts that were used in the conversion and destroy them. Crush them, melt them, torch cut them etc. This is technically considered destruction of evidence, but if he can trust you and his 'go-to gun-guy' to stay quiet, this may be the most attractive option.

Option 3: NOT RECOMMENDED. Keep it. If your friend doesn't understand the severity of the law or doesn't care, the best you can do is try to convince him to keep it on the down-low. Don't tell people, don't shoot it in public, etc. If you can't convince him to do so, delete him from your contact list and STAY AWAY.
 
Great answer! You must have great sources to make a profit at $15k. Decent transferrable lowers are commanding just about that now. Let's get rid of that damned (and illegal) Hughes Amendment in 2013. The extremely high prices will only get worse as the demand for pre 1986 weapons increases.
 
"Although I know someone around here either has something full auto or knows someone who does. Legal or not I have no idea as it's none of my business and it's far enough off that it's probably not a danger to me. Although it sure perked my ears up, hadn't heard that sound since I was a teenager."

If your in my part of Cen.Tex., (B'Wood), It may be me....

"Have you ever had anyone in Law Enforcement ask to see your tax stamp?


Only once. I had a bad experience at our local range, and a couple Bubbas called the cop's."........
 
There was an agreement made many years ago between ALL the chiefs, Constables, and the Sheriff in our area that they would sign NO NFA papers for anyone, even their own officers... When we got turned down by our Chief, we went to a Federal Judge.. he was glad to sign... Then we later circumvented the whole deal by obtaining a Class 3 FFL.


These days, it is customary that the Chiefs and some of the Sheriffs in outlying counties initially reject the letter.. In keeping with their agreement... You return later with a demand letter on a law firms letterhead, ( supplied by the dealer handling the transfer from what I am told) stating that the purchaser was being denied a Constitutionally legal right. They then sign the letter.. According to a couple of buds who have bought lately. One stated his Sheriff asked him why it took a month to get back with the letter, and smiled when he signed... All a game...

My problem for years. Went with a trust and never looked back.
 
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