How do YOU perceive recoil?

[Shane]

This question is VERY subjective, I know. But just for fun I'd like to see how various shooters would group cartridge recoil. Lets assume the cartridge is fired from a full sized gun of appropriate frame size for the cartridge (i.e. NOT a snubby or pocket rocket). Everything up to what I termed "significant" recoil is pretty easy to control for me with limited practice. Once a cartridge goes into the "heavy" recoil range and beyond, it requires a lot of practice. I would consider severe recoil to be a range where only a percentage of shooters could reasonably expect to master it.

I'm only posting on cartridges I've shot. I have no experience with .25 ACP or .32 ACP for example. Mouse guns are not an interest of mine, except for the cute little NAA Mini revolvers.

IME, here is how I would group the various cartridges:

Light recoil:

.22 LR
.22 Magnum

Mild recoil:

.38 special
9mm

Moderate recoil:

.45 ACP
.44 Special
.40 SW

Significant recoil:

.357 magnum
10 mm

Heavy recoil:

.41 magnum
.44 magnum

Severe recoil:

Anything OVER .44 magnum (.454 Casull is an example, as are the large bore Linebaughs).


So, I'd like to see how other shooters would group the various cartridges, based on your experience.

 

[Standing Wolf]

It depends how my wrist is doing on any given day. Some days, I can handle full house .357 magnums with the greatest of ease and a moderate number of .44 magnums; other days, I can't even summon the wherewithal to steady a .22 caliber target pistol, still less shoot it with any accuracy.

 

[Pistolsmith]

Perceived recoil, as opposed to actual recoil, is, as you have noted, an entirely individual perception. Strangely, the cartridge under scrutony often sems quite diffeent to a variety of shooters. It is futile to try putting numbers on them for several reasons:
Handgun recoil always comes in two or three spikes. The first occurs when the bullet begins to move forward when pressure is at its peak. The effect is instant and perceived as a sharp jolt by most shooters. This is instantly followed by the rocket thrust of gases leaving the barrel. Reaction of the weapon depends upon what kind of frame and the type of gun. A Ruger revolver, such as one I have in 9X21 and a S&W autoloader in the same caliber have a perceived recoil that is entirely different. The autoloader has a third element of recoil, which is felt when the massive slide comes to a stop and slams into the frame at its rearmost point of travel. Muscular tone, how the weapon is held, the geometry of grip and stance can change perceived recoil of a medium cartridge mentioned above to the heavy or light level. And, as mentioned above also, osteo arthritis in the shoulder, elbow and wrist will change a shooter's perception. Pain shooting through a joint can initiate a flinch or a cringe or psychological anticipation of recoil, all of which are going to deteriorate group size. With some shooters, barrel length and increased noise will have an effect. My wife swears that her .25 auto pistol has a heavier recoil than her 1911 .45. Obviously, she includes muzzle flash, slide velocity and noise level in her evaluation.
I have participated in discussions of handgun recoil that lasted over several hours with no duplication of points being made.

 

[Erik]

"How do YOU perceive recoil?"

Usually via the hands.

 

[Robby from Long Island]

For me it's difficult to really define recoil in handguns as almost all of them are large handguns.

My 9mm is a double stack Beretta 92FS, my .40 and .45 ACP are both Para-Ordnance high caps holding 16 and 14 rounds while my .357 and .44 magnum are S&W 686 and 629, both with 8 3/8" barrels.

Simply due to their size and weight, recoil is what I consider to be very acceptable and controllable.

Yet I have a Beretta 84F which holds 14 rounds of .380 that I consider to have almost a vicious recoil due to its direct blowback design. Can't shoot more than half a dozen rounds before the pain in the palm of my hand forces me to put the gun away.

Also have several Ruger Bisley's that most shooters prefer over the standard plow handled Blackhawks, yet when I shoot the .44 magnum, find it very uncomfortable the way it twists in my hand whereas the S&W 629 is a total pleasure to shoot. Actually find the 629 to be the most enjoyable of all my handguns to just plink with and I'm talking about full house 240 gr. JHP's.

Guess there are many factors to be considered when a few rounds of .380 make a wimp of me while my 629 makes me want to shoot at least a 100 rounds before I put it down. Go figure......

Safe shooting.

 

[cratz2]

I guess I generally agree with you on the categories. My experience would have me put the 10mm and the 41 Magnum in the same cagetory, probably down with the 357 Magnums rather than up with the 44 Magnums.

Another thing is in a proper revolver, the 454 Casull can be quite acceptable. My friends 7 1/2" Freedom Arms is a pleasure to shoot. More so than a 4" Taurus 44 Magnum. It's all about the grips and grip frame being comfortable to your particular hand.

As many have said, the most unpleasant handgun I recall shooting was one of the Scandium guns in 38 +P. I've put 18 rounds through the 454. Couldn't pay me enough to put 18 rounds of 357 through one of those Scandium guns.

 

[Sven]

.45 on 1911 platform seems to 'push' me a bit, whereas the .9mm in Glock 17 has more of a 'flip' or 'snap' feel to it - esp. with +P loads.

 

[10-Ring]

Last summer, when my right elbow had some serious tentonditis, I could only shoot 100 rounds max before I felt discomfort in the elbow. I shot 9mm because I figured it would be the mildest recoiling caliber in my arsenal after 22lr. Then one night, after not shooting 45's in a few weeks, I planned on shooting my USP 45 until the pain kicked in. 1st 50 rounds, ok; 2nd 50, ok; 3rd & 4th were fine too.
Moral of this story, there are diff't types of recoil to perceive...snappy, rolling and a more ofa push. For me, the 45 is the most gentle, followed by the 9mm.

 

[Pistolsmith]

Another element of recoil is torque. I had a Bolo Mauser re-bored and rifled in 9X19 with a very fast twist of 1/8.9 to test out Phil Sharpe's theory that a very rapid bullet rotation creates much more destruction of tissue in the target. Closest I got to tissue was a phone book. Another pistol with a laconic twist lodged the bullet deep in a phone directory while the rapidly rotating bullet totally shredded the phone book and scatteed the remains across the impact area, definitely disproving the "temporary cavity does not cause destruction" theory wIth this particular round. The perceived recoil and especially torque were elevated by the rapid twist, even more, I would estimate, than a 9X23 Winchester factory load from a light alloy frame pistol.
Again, recoil perception is in the eye of the beholder.
I don't perceive recoil through my hands. Although there are many nerve endings in the fingers and palms, Diabetic neuropothy permanently deadens the feeling in the extremities. I make my perceptions on the basis of muzzle flip.

 

[TallPine]

For me, the recoil perception is mostly psychological ... that is, it is more in the anticipation than anything.

I don't see the problem with muzzle flip except for trying to get the gun back on target for a subsequent shot. So it jumps around, it is not like it is going to hit you in the face as long as you are holding on to it properly. And I have pretty weak arms anymore.

22 LR recoil .... ?

The only thing I have found uncomfortable was some hotter 45 LC loads in Vaqueros - the trigger guard wallops your second finger.

But I have never shot those lightweight 357's etc - and I don't want to. But a 4" medium frame 357 - I don't see what the problem is.

 

[Pistolsmith]

If you think a J frame in .357 magnum is "fierce recoil", get a look of pain on your face, then squeeze off a shot with a double derringer in .357 magnum.

 

[dairycreek]

For me recoil in a handgun is also a function of sound.

I have found that the sound a handgun makes really efffects my perception of recoil. If I am wearing good hearing protection gear such that the sound is significantly muted then recoil, for me, is not a big thing. I have only had one gun actually hurt me and that was a derringer in .357. Gave up on that one quickly. Good shooting

 

[Onslaught]

For me recoil in a handgun is also a function of sound.

Ditto...

Outdoors, I'd rate:

light recoil:
9mm

mild to moderate recoil:
.40
.45

Moderate recoil:
10mm
.38 snubbie

But at an indoor range, everything jumps up a notch... so much so that I notice myself flinching in anticipation of the .45's blast...

As a result, I only go to an indoor range when I HAVE to shoot, but don't have time to drive to an outdoor range.

I have also noticed that, on extremely hot days (90+ degrees) the recoil on my pistols is much more noticeable and less comfortable than during the cooler months (make that weeks, I live in the South). During the winter, nearly everything is "mild" recoil.

I have very limited experience with the .357 magnum, and ZERO with any of the other revolver calibers, so I can't rate them.

 

[Shane]

Ditto on the indoor/outdoor phenemenon. Don't know why, but recoil "feels" worst indoors than outdoors. Perhaps its the noise? I even wear two hearing protections indoors (plugs and headphones) and I still am sensitive to the noise indoors.

 

[blades67]

Its because of the pressure. At an indoor range the pressure on the firing line is sharply increased every time a round goes off. This effect is felt with the whole body, making recoil "feel" more intense.

 

[Shane]

Its because of the pressure. At an indoor range the pressure on the firing line is sharply increased every time a round goes off. This effect is felt with the whole body, making recoil "feel" more intense.

I don't understand what you mean by "pressure". The intensity of the sound waves? Please clarify what you mean in this context.

 

[blades67]

When a cartridge is fired the powder is burned, turning it into a rapidly expanding gas. The enclosed space of the indoor firing range traps that high pressure gas. Your body is compressed by the sudden change in pressure for a very short period of time. Your brain perceives this pressure increase at the same time you're firing the gun causing you to "feel" that recoil is increased.

 

[gbran]

Severe recoil

I have a .454 Casull SRH. With hot rounds, it snaps and pushes. I've fired .475 & 500 Linbaughs. They have a more serious push, but not as sharp as the Casull. My .357 Blackhawk, even with hot rounds, is pleasant. With similar sized weapons, you have to consider grip style and cartridge powder burn rate. You can get a lot of power without all the snap. I assume this is true against the entire caliber spectrum.

 

[Thirties]

I have a tiny Beretta 951 .22 short pistol that really "stings" when I shoot it.

Of all my other guns (.22lr up to .38spl and 9mm), none give me that particular stinging feeling, which I find most unpleasant.

I figure the sting is due to the light weight of the Beretta, the non-rubber grips and the very thin backstrap.

As for recoil, none of my guns have high recoil. I don't enjoy punishing myself. I have a .357magnum, but only shoot target loads.

Call me a whimp if you want, but I enjoy shooting comfortably.

One thing I notice is there are three diffent types of recoil:

Blowback vs locked breech--

blowback guns seem to squirm or wiggle less in my hands.

Revolver vs all auto pistols--

less upward kick and easiest to shoot well (for me).

.22lr vs centerfire--

very slight recoil vs felt recoil


Anyone wanna buy an overpriced Beretta 951 corto? <1/2 g>

 

[Shane]

Revolver vs all auto pistols--

less upward kick and easiest to shoot well (for me).

Which is easier for you, the post didn't make that clear.


I personally find revolvers easier to shoot recoil wise, because the grips are often rubber (all stock Ruger GP 100s and SP 101s for example) and there is usu a curve to the handle.

Straight backstraps, like some semi-auto pistols have (i.e. 1911's), really magnify recoil for my hands.
YMMV

 

[Thirties]

Shane,

I said:
"Revolver vs all auto pistols--
less upward kick and easiest to shoot well (for me)."

You asked:
Which is easier for you, the post didn't make that clear.

I now reply
Revolver is easier vs the auto.

That should make it clear now. We agree.

I feel a S&W .38spl revolver (m10 or m15) even with walnut grips easier to shoot accurately than a 9x19 locked breach or a 9x18 blowback. Maybe it is the shape of the grip. I really don't know why.