How do you shoot the J frame effectively?

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Lots of good suggestions already posted.

I got comfortable shooting an M642 by installing some Pachmyr grips on it, ones that are a bit larger than the Uncle Mike factory grips and shooting it frequently over a year or so.

Every time I went shooting, I'd shoot some rounds in either the M642 or another DA revolver that I took to the range. In the M642, I'd shoot 38 Special wadcutters. I'd shoot a box or less double action so that I would be able to see improvement without trying to hard and inducing some bad habits.
 
Google Claude Werner, one of the snub experts. I will add more when I get the chance.
 
I agree that there's no magic solution, but Hogue Tamer grips made a huge difference to me with my 642. I can't claim to really shoot it well, but I shoot it a lot better with these grips than I did without them.
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The downside is that they make it much less concealable.
 
You also must keep in mind that J frames are not target pistols. Just as an LCP is not a target pistol. They are not intended to shoot cloverleaf groups at 25 yards. They don't have 1 pound trigger pulls and long barrels.
When people are practicing with a small concealed carry pistol I think sometimes they have expectations of accuracy and precision that may not be realistic for the gun.
If I can keep keep all my shots on a sheet of printer paper at 7 yards firing quickly I'm pretty happy with that from my J frames.
Aimed slow fire with my 1911 is a different set of expectations.
 
Some more info:

a. General discussion of snubby usage : skip first 30 minutes. https://www.facebook.com/381879408648792/posts/1239541652882559/
Their site: http://www.hardwiredtacticalshooting.com/ They periodically run snub and/or revolver classes
b. Werner's web site: https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress.com/ - lots of drills and snub information. Great class.
AAR - https://blog.hsoi.com/2010/03/01/aar-snub-training-with-claude-werner/
c. Shoot them in competition - something I wrote: http://blog.krtraining.com/186-2/ www.krtraining.com runs small gun, snubby classes at times.

Both aren't that far from Arkansas.

Also, one might consider https://taccon.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/TacCon19_Mini_Schedule.pdf in Dallas, for a general miniunversity of gun usage.

Check out Claude's stuff. However, I also find that being self-taught is fine if you have good material but nothing beats a class from a qualifed instructor.
 
....expectations of accuracy and precision that may not be realistic for the gun.
I think that goes for a lot of things, with a lot of people, and the gun usually isnt being the least bit unrealistic. It only does what its told. :)

I find, at closer distances, I shoot pretty much everything the same, especially when Im shooting quickly. Whats "realistic" depends on what youre doing too.

If Im deliberate with my J frames, I tend to get nice groups, just like I do if Im deliberate with my 1911's or Glocks, etc.

If Im shooting a bit more realistically, the groups open up with any of them, as you would expect. They do still almost always go where Im looking when I shoot though.

I belonged to a range that required you to "qualify" if you wanted to shoot a hangun at 50 and 100 yards. Nothing really hard, they used a International Blackpodwer 100 yards target, I think it was something like 18x18 with a 10" bull. All you had to do, was hit the paper, and you qualified. They were having problems with people not being able to hit the backers and butts with a handgun at that reange and things were getting built up around the range, so that didnt want any "duffers" doing something stupid and getting the range shut down.

I just happened to be there at the 100 yard line shooting my rifle when they showed up and started doing the qualifications. They said if anyone wanted to do it, they could. One boy stepped up with what he had on him, a S&W 36 CS. The looked at him like he was crazy. He was the only person there that tried, to put all 5 rounds required, in the black. Most of the others were having trouble keeping them on the paper. :eek:

The guns will almost always shoot better than the shooter. And the main reason there is, the guns lack ego. They just do what they're told. :thumbup:
 
For the life of me I have been unable to figure out how to effectively shoot a J frame. I have tried for years and had no success. I would really like to get another 642, but I cannot hit anything past belly gun ranges, and I know that they can be fired effectively at distance. I shoot K frames, L frames, autos, etc. and have no problems. I have been unable to pick up the skill set to shoot these smaller revolvers. What grip, etc. do you utilize to make the J frame perform for you?

Have you worked to develop the requisite skillset necessary to accurately shoot the larger revolvers you've listed in DA mode?(Or just SA mode?) DA is harder for most folks to reasonably master, obviously. Reducing the size of the DA/DAO revolvers usually increases the difficulty.

I use the same grip technique and skillset to shoot my J-frames as I use to shoot my assorted SA revolvers and pistols, larger DA revolvers, striker-fired pistols, etc. Granted, the diminutive size of the J's demand "more" of me than when I'm shooting my larger handguns, but that's understandable. The very features and attributes which make the little snubs so appealing as smaller defensive weapons also tend to make them harder for many people to shoot them. The smaller & lighter snubs demand "more" of the shooter in many ways.

A "comfortably adequate" grip and trigger technique that serves someone well when shooting larger revolvers may not serve a particular shooter as well when it comes to the smaller snubs, especially the DAO snubs.

The smaller grip (more felt recoil), shorter trigger reach (less mechanical advantage for the trigger stroke), lighter weight (more recoil and increased controllability issues), less refined sights (depends on the shooter's ability to acquire and maintain a practical sight picture/alignment, too) ... and the DAO models may introduce more difficulties for handgunners who have usually only shot their larger revolvers in the lighter SA trigger mode, or who have never had to shoot semiauto pistols that had more than a 5-6lb trigger pull.

Now, some snub shooters are able to learn to properly control the little guns using the skimpy Bantam-type short grip stocks, and others find it helpful (necessary?) to change to longer and larger grip stocks, meaning something more closely approximating the grip stocks of their larger revolvers. That's probably both a shooter and a training/experience consideration.

Then, there's the inevitable effect of the amount of felt recoil produced by various loads, from the sedate target wadcutter, to the mild 130gr ball loads, to the hotter & heavier recoiling +P loads (if the particular snub is rated for a diet of the +P stuff).

Sometimes it might help to find a more experienced and skilled DA revolver shooter (local competitor?) or handgun instructor who could observe and assess your basic handgunning skillset, and suggest refinements and improvements to your foundation technique which might help improve your ability to shoot the little snubs.

While there's a membership fee required, something like this might prove interesting and possibly helpful in picking up some tips.
https://www.imwithroscoe.com/

There are also some books that have been published about the little snubs that might help provide some insight in learning to better master them, too.
 
Use the force, Bernie, use the force.

The Snubby/BUG course given by an ex-employer and lots of rounds down range is what did it for me.

Short answer: training and practice.
 
Same way you get to Carnegy Hall.
Practice, practice, practice

As a couple posters said laser grips are a good way to practice. You really need to focus on learning to pull the trigger smoothly and quickly without moving the gun off target.
 
The red laser grips don't really work well in daylight. Using them as a training tool is a good idea but you have to move beyond them for outside work. You find yourself looking for a little hard to see dot as compared to focusing on sights and opponent. At night, in the house, I see their utility.
 
It takes most of us a lot of practice to shoot j-frame snubbies decently.

Steel frames are easier to shoot than aluminum.

Larger grips can be very helpful.

My Ruger LCR has a much better DA trigger than any S&W j-frame I've ever shot.

My 2" k-frame is much easier to shoot than a j-frame.

If I can draw quickly and put all five shots onto a small paper plate at 20 feet, I figure that's good enough for SD.
 
The red laser grips don't really work well in daylight. Using them as a training tool is a good idea but you have to move beyond them for outside work. You find yourself looking for a little hard to see dot as compared to focusing on sights and opponent. At night, in the house, I see their utility.
I agree they're use for actual SD shooting very limited. As a training aid not only are they good for trigger pull. If you practice at it you can get amazingly good at pointing the gun then turning the laser on and making the dot appear exactly where you want.
 
For the life of me I have been unable to figure out how to effectively shoot a J frame. I have tried for years and had no success. I would really like to get another 642, but I cannot hit anything past belly gun ranges, and I know that they can be fired effectively at distance. I shoot K frames, L frames, autos, etc. and have no problems. I have been unable to pick up the skill set to shoot these smaller revolvers. What grip, etc. do you utilize to make the J frame perform for you?
1. Get a professional trigger job
2. Lots and lots of dry fire practice with the focus on ZERO movement of the sights.
3. Get a load that lessens recoil. Lot's of LE actually carry target wadcutters in their back-up j-frames for a reason.
4. Get a j-frame that either has better sights or allows you to change the sights.
5. See #2. Dry fire endlessly and don't let the sight picture change in the slightest.
 
J frames are not just "belly guns". The J frame - starting with the venerable Chiefs Special , are excellent compact revolvers - and can be shot accurately.
Grip selection is very important on a small frame. I have attached an image of a set of Pachmayrs (sp?) that serve me very well , stable yet not excessively bulky.
Ammunition selection is also real important. http://www.ballistics101.com/38_special.php This site has been very useful to me in selecting reasonable J frame ammunition. Pay close attention to muzzle velocity and pressures.
.38 special is an excellent caliber for the J frame. Skip the +P. 357 magnum is , IMO , senseless for this frame size.
I long since gave up on alloy framed J frames. Unpleasant to shoot = not going to practice = lousy proficiency.
I swap springs and polish rebound slides to improve the trigger.
Practice in single action until the groups get reasonable at 7-10 yards. Then practice slow staging of double action trigger. Gradually pick up the rate of discharge over many sessions. Plan on going through many 100's of rounds.
Practice , practice , practice.

Steel J frames , Chiefs and 60's , are my edc choice. I enjoy shooting them , and I am fairly good at it. BUT , it took a while. The recent target is the result of 13 yard da action shooting , about 1 shot per second , standing unsupported. There are 9 holes , 1 flyer just missed the box.
 

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Bernie,

My first question is how tall are you? If that seems like a silly question, another way to put it would be how large is your hand. If you are having trouble with the J-frames, first, is the grip too small for your hands. The wooden factory grips on many revolvers are outdated and fit the hand poorly.
One of my co-workers is about 6 inches taller than me. He has larger hands and hates the GLOCK 19 because it is too small for his hands. It fits me perfectly. Also, woman and small stature men who have trouble handling a K-frame size revolver can often do very well by switching down to a J-frame. The women, in my family, all can hold a J-frame or the slightly larger grip of the COLT Detective Special/CHARTER ARMS 6 shot .38 Special revolvers without any problems. However, the most petite, prefer the smaller J-frame to the larger 6 shot revolvers.

You can offset that somewhat, but using a well shaped rubber grip, which may also moderate the recoil somewhat.

Also, be realistic about what you intend to use a J-frame for. I usually instruct or show people with small revolvers and semi-autos to shoot to a maximum of 10 yards/meters which is well inside the guns capability and usually the shooter's as well.

Also, start with a load that is easy to shoot and then work your way up the power lever to what you can tolerate. I like 148 grain lead wadcutters, but my range does not allow them, so I go with the 130 grain full metal jacket "AIR FORCE LOAD". It is weak and not very effective for self defense, but great for practice and not expensive if you buy 100 rounds boxes.

Just my experience.

Jim
 
I shoot my only J frame well. As others have said there is no magic and the key is deliberate practice. Work slowly and use low velocity loads until your confidence and skills improve. I shoot snubs constantly since I dearly love them.
 
I would not want to be without a J frame. One J frame of another has been my main carry for at least 12 years of more.

Short story that I have told here before.
When I got my first J frame I took it to the range and shot 5 rounds at a 8"x11" paper @10 yards. I went up to see how small the group was and to my shock the paper was as clean as when made. I did a lot of dry firing the next few days, at least 500 trigger pulls and the next time I shot the gun I could cover all 5 holes with my fist. Much better than all misses lol!

I still dry fire during the winter months because shooting skills are diminishing. Keep at it, you will improve if you put in the effort.
 
For me, the key to shooting an Airweight J-fram well was these steps:
1) Dryfiring
2) Dryfiring
3) Dryfiring
4) Dryfiring
5) Live Firing

I didn't do a trigger job, though after 500 dry fires the trigger was noticeably more smooth and after 1,000 it was pretty nice. I also didn't change the grip, one of the benefits of a j-frame is it's small boot grip and I'm not going to compromise it's pocket-ability just to shoot it a little more accurately. No, I just dry fired it a LOT, focusing on smooth consistent trigger pulls. Some people like to attempt to stage the trigger for accurate shots, and while that may work for target shooting this is a defensive weapon and I use it as such, so I practiced with constant pressure to get a smooth trigger pull. Like others have mentioned, you're looking to make sure the front sight doesn't bounce out of the rear grooves during your pull. Start with SLOOOOW trigger pulls, and as you get better speed it up until you get to a "normal" trigger pull speed (I'm not sure how to quantify what that is though).
 
I agree that there's no magic solution, but Hogue Tamer grips made a huge difference to me with my 642. I can't claim to really shoot it well, but I shoot it a lot better with these grips than I did without them.
View attachment 850197

The downside is that they make it much less concealable.
That's not a 642. Nice to know they make the Tamer grip for the BodyGuard 38, though. I just have the stock tiny rubber grip, and they suck. The only good thing I can say about the BodyGuard 38's trigger is it had a 'stage' right before it fires that you can stop on; it's almost like having a single action. It makes it a little more accurate.
 
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They've both been said already, but here are my two cents.

1. Hogue grip. The rubber one that fits your hand (and any other normal-to-large human hand!).
2. Dryfire. And more dryfire.
 
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