How do you teach someone new to guns about quality?

[.308 Norma]

A buddy of mine once bought himself a new Remington M-700 rifle. Rather than telling him he’d made a mistake, I built him a ramrod to carry along on his hunting trips so that he could get the empty cases out of his rifle after its extractor broke.

I once offered to use my real "aught-six” to back up another buddy with his 25-06 while he was deer hunting. I told him that if I was there with my 30-06, he could rest assured that a deer he only wounded with his 25-06 wouldn’t get away.

I also tried to teach yet another buddy the proper terminology for all of the malfunctions he was going to have with the Taurus 9mm semi-auto he’d laid away. I told him that I’d heard Taurus was real good about honoring their warranties, but when he sent his pistol back to them, he was going to have to use the proper terminology for describing the malfunctions instead of just calling them all “jams.”

I don’t have any idea why I’ve never had a buddy for very long. My wife has been with me for 50 years, and she loves it when I point out her mistakes. I can tell she loves it by the way her jaws clench.

 

[rabid wombat]

I see what you're saying. For a 500$+ gun , you expect it to work out of the box perfectly. That much for a project gun (for lack of better words) is outrageous.

Agreed!

I would prefer NOT having to fire 500 rounds to “break them in…”

 

[Insignificant bill]

OMG. I'm going to start using this phrase in all sorts of scenarios.

How did you like the dinner?
Well, it wasn't as bad as a hundred rounds and a Taurus.

What do you think of [insert name of any politician here]?
Worse than a hundred rounds and a Taurus.

You gotta pay to use it

 

[Airborne Falcon]

I have to disagree with Hi Point having bad CS. Personal experience. Bought a Hi Point at a pawn shop, it had a little rattle. Registered it, called them. Sent it, and they gave me a brand new one, plus two mags, all free of charge. That's awesome customer service.

I gotta admit ... I found a HiPoint 9mm one time, one round and instant stove pipe. Called their customer service, sent it to them ... it came back, completely rebuilt with extra mags, ran like a sewing machine. I was amazed. Total Saturday Night Special junk and ugliest semi auto handgun ever designed but darn ... anyways, I gave it away to a 2nd cousin. They try really really hard. I give them big time credit. They believe in their mission and it is gonna pay-off in the long run but they sure do make cheap ugly guns.

 

[Walkalong]

Y'all get back on topic please.

 

[JDeere]

I don't try to tell anyone what they should buy. If I am asked I will give them my opinion based on my experience of being around firearms on a regular basis. If one is a true shooter they will learn quite quickly. I bought a cheap firearm once because I was being cheap and it did not take long to realize it was a mistake. Buy once, cry once and in the end one will be happier imo.

 

[PapaG]

Let them shoot a Beretta 92 and then a Hi Point. Yeah, both will go bang many times but fit, feel, accuracy and resale are easy to compare. That said, in the right neighborhood you can make a profit on the Hi Point quicker.

 

[JFrank]

If some body ask’s then I tell IF I know the answer or have personal experience with that subject, otherwise I try to stay in my lane.

 

[benEzra]

There was a time when a Phoenix Arms Raven ($69) for my wife and a Bersa model 383 (Walther clone) that I had purchased while in college, were literally the only defensive handguns we could afford to buy.

When we bought the Raven for my wife, I had just graduated from college and was making $918/mo at an entry-level job, and my wife was finishing her last year of college. Even buying that $69 pistol was a financial stretch; there was simply no additional money for “spend more and get something better” at that stage in our lives, period.

We shot both guns quite a bit, thanks to cheap ammo and cheap range access. Both pistols were remarkably accurate. The Raven never once jammed, and the Bersa was 100% reliable with good FMJ and with Federal JHP, though it wouldn’t feed Sellier & Bellot FMJ due to the fatter nose profile, so I only fed it what it liked. When I got my first CHL, I carried the Bersa.

A couple years later, when we were finally less poor, I upgraded to a S&W 3913LS (that I still carry to this day), and my wife upgraded to a Glock 26. But for our circumstances at the time, the Raven and Bersa were not bad choices, and I probably would have been quite bit peeved if a friend had sneered at our inability to purchase the more expensive guns we really wanted but simply couldn’t afford yet, as if we went cheap out of ignorance rather than necessity.

Don’t assume that someone who shoots a Hi Point is ignorant. Maybe they feel that they need a defensive firearm *right now* rather than saving up for something better later, and there is no shame in taking what pride you can in what you can afford. FWIW, I drove a 1978 El Camino at the time with a V6 and 3-on-the-floor and going on 200k miles, and took pride in that too even though I would have loved to have something better (and eventually did).

Here is a really good anecdote by trainer Greg Ellfritz, among those same lines. It is well worth reading.

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/an-interesting-experience-at-the-shooting-range

 

[Bazoo]

I don't lump bersa in with cheap guns. My wife has one she carries in her purse. Occasionally on her person. It's never failed except with steel cased ammo. Tulammo I think it was.

 

[Buzznrose]

I'm going to sound like a snob, but there are some gun manufacturers who put out bad quality guns more frequently than others.


Bottom line, how do you tell someone their gun might be junk and not reliable enough to save their life if necessary without being offensive?

Responding to the OP…

1. IMO, a “gun snob” is someone who looks down their nose at guns that are perfectly fine, but not what the “snob approves of…”. As in a clay pigeon shooter who loves O/U’s and talks bad about folks who shoot clays with autoloaders, or hunters who disparage AR’s, or 1911 guys who say all plastic guns are junk.

2. As far as telling someone they have a ‘sub par’ gun, I don’t. I only tell them what I would do in their place.

When asked for an opinion about a gun BEFORE the purchase was made (on a Highpoint being bought for home defense), I simply said it wasn’t something I’d buy. I explained that while some folks have good luck with them, many have issues and often require a trip or two back to the factory for work. If that is something they can live with, it’s their money to spend. And I generally give a few other inexpensive options I’d trust, like S&W, SA, and Ruger base line models.

When I’m asked about a gun AFTER the purchase is made, I offer to take them to the range and shoot with them. A friend had bought a cheap brand (can’t remember what brand) and we went shooting. I brought several different guns. We shot his gun (which had several FTF/FTE’s in the first couple magazines) first. I gave him a box of 9MM and told him to shoot the box and showed him hot to clear the malfunctions.

Then, we shot my guns. My guns are mostly Glock with a few other brands like SA, Walther, Ruger, and a Sig. He shot a lot and had an epiphany after shooting all the guns and not one issue.

He ended up buying an XD 9 a few days later on sale (late 2018), and sold his first gun into the COVID panic in 2020.

That’s what happened to me, and I think it worked out okay. Still friends with both guys…

 

[bdickens]

Here is a really good anecdote by trainer Greg Ellfritz, among those same lines. It is well worth reading.

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/an-interesting-experience-at-the-shooting-range

Well worth reading and well worth heeding.

 

[Seedy Character]

When I get asked my opinion on what to get, it give any honest assessment, stressing it is based on my opinion, acquired through experience.
When some one shows or tells me about their new toy, I congratulate them on their on the purchase and offer to go with them to the range. Hard as it is, at times, I try not to bad mouth the purchase they are happy with.

My nephew made this first gun purchase, a Lorcin. I almost bit my tongue off trying to not say bad things. A trip to the range and he sold that thing.

Now, he will text me before buying anything. They last time, 2 weeks ago, he was with the guy trying to make the trade. He was not happy when the trade didn't happen.

Remember: friends don't let friends buy Blocks.

 

[DustyGmt]

If able to do so, let him shoot or borrow one of your guns and if he has any sense he will immediately pick up on the difference in quality. If you have the extra income you could "accidentally" break his pos and offer to replace it with something better . Either that or tell him you'll throw in on his next gun purchase as long as he promises to only use the pos for range use....

 

[Autodidactic]

I'm going to sound like a snob, but there are some gun manufacturers who put out bad quality guns more frequently than others. I understand that every gun manufacturer has issues sometimes, but some make bad guns.

Recently, a buddy proudly showed me a handgun he got his wife for her that she used in a concealed carry class. It was a Bryco .380. You could see the recoil spring through the gap between the slide and frame and actually press them together to close that gap. She managed to qualify well according to them, but I would not want to trust my wife's life (or hands) to that gun.

When I pointed out the gap between the slide and frame and subsequently squeezed them together, he seemed concerned and said he'd have a gunsmith take a look at it.

He also has a Taurus Millennium 9mm. It's not the greatest gun in the world either, but he seems to have no complaints. I understand about different budgets and limits, but there is no way I'd trust my or my family's lives to those guns.

I'm no fan of Taurus. Once, my brother asked me about a concealed carry gun and mentioned a couple he was considering. One of them was a Taurus. I forget the specific model, but I'd read about problems with the sights as well as some other issues. I recommended he stay away from the Taurus which he promptly ignored and bought anyway. He brought it to our dad's house to try out and from 3 yards away couldn't get a decent group. It looked like a shotgun pattern, no exaggeration. Then I looked at the gun and noticed the rear sight wiggle. I pointed this out to my brother and he felt appropriately foolish.

Bottom line, how do you tell someone their gun might be junk and not reliable enough to save their life if necessary without being offensive?

I think one has to explain that like any product, there is a baseline of quality. Because these may be meant for self defense, that baseline may be higher than let’s say a microwave, which your life doesn’t depend on. I’ve often likened the price point of self defense firearms (especially handguns) to be roughly similar to laptops. You can get an okay entry level laptop for $400, from a cheap brand. But realistically, a decent no frills laptop from a quality brand will be about $600. It will be more with upgrades, more cpu power, or certain brands (apple). Handguns are pretty similar now days. The exception is micro .380’s and some subcompacts. But again, those are about $400 out the door for .380’s, and maybe $500 for a Shield Plus. .38 snubbies from a good brand can be had for $500 too.

 

[Insignificant bill]

I have purchased an LC9s brand new for 250 and and a M&p 9 Shield brand new for 285. Quality is not necessarily determined by price paid.

 

[Autodidactic]

I have purchased an LC9s brand new for 250 and and a M&p 9 Shield brand new for 285. Quality is not necessarily determined by price paid.

The Shields are no longer that price point, new. Yes the Rugers mentioned are still affordable. To be honest, I’ve been disappointed with the cheaper Ruger offerings. Their quality revolvers seem good, but cost $500+. I have a Ruger Wrangler, and had a LCP. Cheaper, and it was apparent.

 

[Zerodefect]

The cheaper striker fired pistols will waste, what we started out with. Ruger p95's, Smithy da/sa's, and Keltec p11's. It's a darn good time to be a noob.

The new Rugers, Walthers, Mossberg, FN's, and even some Taurus pistols, will all outperform what we started with, easy. Even CZ offers a budget polymer striker pistol now.

I had to turn off my cable and eat Mac and cheese, to get a quality 1911. So you won't get much pity from me.

 

[crestoncowboy]

The Shields are no longer that price point, new.

No doubt. 2 year ago a px4 was under 150 bucks. An M&P 40 was 249. A glock 22 was 300. A 226 40 was 350. And a USP 40 was 400. All like new with night sights. My sig 320 was 300 bucks new. My cpo 229s were 400. A thousand rounds of winchester ranger t was 300 bucks......Not useful information now though. Lol

 

[Autodidactic]

No doubt. 2 year ago a px4 was under 150 bucks. An M&P 40 was 249. A glock 22 was 300. A 226 40 was 350. And a USP 40 was 400. All like new with night sights. My sig 320 was 300 bucks new. My cpo 229s were 400. A thousand rounds of winchester ranger t was 300 bucks......Not useful information now though. Lol

Show me these prices. I know shields 1.0 used to be stupid cheap. Are you referring to Blue Label prices or some other deal? Two years ago these seem a bit low. What M&P .40 was $249? A Shield?

I don’t mean to be skeptical, but these don’t seem accurate for end of 2019.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Show me these prices

Trade in 40s. Well documented. During the great 40 purge. Lol. I have 400 each for my 2 USP. I bought each of the guns i mentioned. Tried to get other guys too but they "couldn't afford it" alright they golf and drive vehicles with payment books and other wastes. Now they want to buy ammo from me.

 

[Walkalong]

Trade in 40s. Well documented. During the great 40 purge. Lol

Bought two M&P's for the kids and an FNS-40 for me during that time.

 

[crestoncowboy]

A lot of it i didn't screen shot. Those were just some I sent people Because I knew in a short while they would be bumming ammo and compatibility about how they couldn't afford nice guns

 

[crestoncowboy]

FNS-40 for me during that time.

That's one I did miss. I saw them but hesitated. There was also a third gen smith from CHP I believe it was. I missed that one too. I was waiting on it to come down just a bit more. Lol. 40-06 maybe I wish I'd bought some of the 250 dollar mossberg and remington police 12 guages too

Same people were begging to pay 50 a box for the same ammo a year later. Id throw mine in the fire to hear it pop before id sell it to the ones that are my age and have seen the cycle so many times. Ive give it away to kids who honestly didn't have the money to stock up though

 

[Mike J]

No doubt. 2 year ago a px4 was under 150 bucks. An M&P 40 was 249. A glock 22 was 300. A 226 40 was 350. And a USP 40 was 400. All like new with night sights. My sig 320 was 300 bucks new. My cpo 229s were 400. A thousand rounds of winchester ranger t was 300 bucks......Not useful information now though. Lol

Back during that time I bought a M&P 2.0 40 Compact for $350 NIB.I also remember 2 days after I ordered it getting an E-mail with the same pistol with night sights for $300. I had already ordered so I ddin't renege. I remember wanting one of the Sig P-229 .40 LEO trade ins CDNN ran for a long time but I couldn't swing it right then. Deals were everywhere.