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How do you tell if a gun is +P+ rated?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by vis-à-vis, Oct 29, 2007.

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  1. vis-à-vis

    vis-à-vis Member

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    I was bridge hunting in the middle of nowhere with my friends and decided to defend myself against a tree with my CCW. Problem with that was I fired off all my carry rounds and, to my shame, all the ammo I had in my house except for 5 rounds of 115 gr. WWB.

    Better than nothing, but that's all I got in my gun. So I am going to order a stash of Winchester 147 gr. SXT. Problem is, I have no idea how to tell if my Glock 19 is rated for it.

    I would assume so since you there is no known force on earth which can destroy my Glock (unlike my XD).

    Thanks for the education.

    By the way, that tree is as good as dead. All 16 shots were center mass and in a tight group.
     
  2. polekitty

    polekitty Member

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    I would bet the farm your Glock is ok +P+. Glocks main market target is law enforcement, and Federal sells a 9mm+P+ especially for law enforcement. It is available, and legal, for private use. I've shot the stuff in my new Taurus 24/7PRO. It actually doesn't "feel" much different from my Corbon, but I suppose it is. On second thought, it might possibly have a little more bump than my Corbon and Fiocci.
     
  3. strickj

    strickj member

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    I would say so to.the only gun I own far as I know that cant handle them is my ja9 cheap-o-shooter

    and btw what forces destroyed your xd?
     
  4. antsi

    antsi Member

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    I don't believe there is any official standard for +P+. SAAMI is the agency that sets pressure standards for cartridges, and I don't think +P+ has any exact meaning other than "exceeds SAAMI standards."

    Thus I doubt any manufacturer is going to make a blanket statement that it's okay to shoot +P+ because they would essentially be saying "you can shoot anything you are able to physically cram into the chamber."

    The general advice given here and elsewhere is that modern quality firearms can probably handle +P+ ammo made by reputable name brand manufacturers. Shoot it through an antique or a junk gun, or use Brand Z Nuclear Hot ammo, and all bets are off.
     
  5. everallm

    everallm Member

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    +1 with Antsi

    +P/+P+ are not measurements they are marketing devices only, vary wildly from manufacturer to manufacturer and are generally taken to mean.

    "Yo sucker, this stuff will make you bigger, badder and cooler than any other guy on the block"

    Followed by REALLLLLY small print

    Ammunition has been shot by a professional on a closed course. Not intended for real world use, side effects may include loss of hearing, loss of eyeball, loss of digits, coma or death. The above ammunition has not been evaluated or accepted by the FDA and any loss or injury is entirely the fault of the consumer.

    In other words Caveat Emptor, shoot at your own discretion and be bloody careful
     
  6. vis-à-vis

    vis-à-vis Member

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    Haha. Fair enough.

    I simply want some good penetration & damage so I can put my foe down. I just don't want my gun to explode while my foe laughs at me and bludgeons me to death with my shattered gun.
     
  7. vis-à-vis

    vis-à-vis Member

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    Oh, none actually. I was being somewhat sarcastic and implied the XD was a piece of crap compared to my mighty Glock. :-D
     
  8. everallm

    everallm Member

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    Vis-à-Vis,

    Real issue here is better "knock down" rather than higher velocity and not infrequently lower accuracy which is all that + ammunition will give you.
    (Accuracy based upon user interaction/experience rather than inherent to the higher pressure....)


    Shoot the calibre you are comfortable with, work on accuracy and shoot enough to build muscle memory.

    Then look at the various EFMJ, JHP etc rounds out there and discount about 50% of the hype.

    http://www.theboxotruth.com/

    Has some potentially useful empirical info on the various types of round in more real world scenarios.
     
  9. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    1) Read the manual. If it does not state yay or nay...
    2) Contact the manufacturer.

    I just did this for the Sig P225. The response was that it's fine for +P since that is SAAMI-spec, but not for +P+.

    That being said, I'd say a Glock would handle +P+ from Federal or Winchester. I don't think either want the reputation for destroying LE guns.
     
  10. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    Most of the "+P" and "+P+" is hype used to sell ammunition. Any modern handgun will handle the slightly warmer loads.
     
  11. possum

    possum Member

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    please explain i don't get it.

    the glock will be fine.
     
  12. Owen

    Owen Moderator Emeritus

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    AFAIK, no handgun is officially rated for +P+.

    +P is a standard level above +P

    +P+ is a cartidge that exceeds the +P standard. IIRC there is no actual pressure rating for +P+ ammo.

    In general a modern pistol should be fine with any ammo. In general handguns are radically overbuilt. Just ask Clark. He should be here any minute :)
     
  13. strickj

    strickj member

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    lol gotta love glock guys
    I was one till I shot my 1st xd
     
  14. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    That is not correct, there are most certainly some calibers that have +P pressures specified by saami. .38spl is 17k psi, .38spl +P is 20k psi. Thats not marketing, thats a difference in measured pressure. +P+ would be anything over 20k psi in that round. There is no .380acp +P pressure specified by saami, so if you see someone selling .380 +P then its marketing.
     
  15. everallm

    everallm Member

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    Soybomb,

    My quote above says "vary" and "generally taken"

    You have quoted one specific calibre for one manufacturer for one type. So my stance (statistically) is better than yours. Then again stats and lies.....

    As I said, this is pure sales BS and is Buyer Beware
     
  16. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    To each his own, I don't call real pressure differences sales BS. I didn't want people to think that there is no such thing as +P when it is in fact a real standard with a measured max pressure in many caliber just like the regular saami spec'ed loads.
     
  17. RockyMtnTactical

    RockyMtnTactical Member

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    Try it in the gun in question. If it explodes, it is not rated for it. If it doesn't there's a chance that it can handle it... :neener:

    I would ask the manufacturer...
     
  18. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Did you really shoot off all your SD ammo to stop a zombie tree from eating you?

    I would think it wise to save at least 1 mag in case the tree's family came-a-callin.
     
  19. WVMountainBoy

    WVMountainBoy Member

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    DOWN WITH THE ZOMBIE TREES!!!
    Okay thats out of my system...but really bullet choice is more important than a +P rating. Expansion and wound channel are more important than getting an exit wound due to velocities that would make a SR71 jealous. Save the money on getting good quality factory ammo that consistantly performs well out of your gun. Hollows are going to be better for SD than FMJ's...buy a few boxes from the major loaders (Federal, Win, Hornady, and maybe even *wretch* Remington) See what JHP your gun likes best, then take down the zombie tree lords with a vengence!
     
  20. vis-à-vis

    vis-à-vis Member

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    I did and while engulfed in fear I became imprudent.

    Is Winchester Ranger SXT 147gr not a worthy defense round?
     
  21. Seven High

    Seven High Member

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    FWIW I own a S&W 642. It was not marked for +P ammunition. It was mfg. in 1991. I called S&W. They stated that it was not approved for +p. I do not shoot +P in it. I am having problems finding non +P SD ammo. for it.
     
  22. Claude Clay

    Claude Clay Member

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    winchester silvertip hp. try em, work fine for me
     
  23. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    Read the manual for your particular handgun or call the manufacturer...
     
  24. GaryP

    GaryP Member

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    Yeah, except Glock with those unsupported chambers! :neener:

    Read: KA-BOOM waiting to happen with anything other than SAAMI spec ammo.

    :evil:
     
  25. Owen

    Owen Moderator Emeritus

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    Considering they are all proofed, they do fine with ammo quite a bit hotter than SAAMI.

    It's not so much the pressure that's the problem, is reused, brittle brass, and only with .40's AFAIK.
     
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